All about Obama!

[migopod]

You know--another thing I'm unclear about--I thought this thread was about "Obama and his arrogance". Isn't the bowing thing showing the opposite? I guess the narrative is now: "Obama, not arrogant enough...."

Tough to keep up.

--Philistine

Here's a simple formula that might help.

'Obama does %s. Right wing apoplectic with rage.'%('anything')

I think it's getting to the point where most Americans realize that this is exactly what's happening. Obama plays basketball and the right erupts with frothy pronouncements of evil conspiracies and Socialist agendas. If this happens enough, when Obama inevitably unzips his person suit and reveals that he's actually a Muslim-extra-terrestrial-reptile-Socialist-Hitler-Mao-Stalinazi and fires up the machine that kills all the elderly and takes away people's guns, people will have been completely jaded about the daily coronary from Fox and Friends over such trivial nonsense.

I, for one, welcome our new Muslim-extra-terrestrial-reptile-Socialist-Hitler-Mao-Stalinazi overlords.

[Bayou Bum]

Still waiting for Bayou Bum's source for the following "quote" from Kyodo News (which he put in a quotation box, for good measure):



I imagine we'll be waiting quite a while for that source, given that it almost certainly doesn't exist.

I cannot locate the original source but the quote is also listed in this article from ABCNews. I suppose they are as right wing as Fox now.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpu...are-wrong.html

You are avoiding the issue, which is Obama should not have bowed as he did to any other head of state. It is just more evidence of how he is not qualified to be President of the United States. Just because you think he can do no wrong shows your bias. For people who criticize Bush and Palin for every action, you sure don't set the bar very high for Obama.

[noodle]

I cannot locate the original source but the quote is also listed in this article from ABCNews. I suppose they are as right wing as Fox now.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpu...are-wrong.html

You are avoiding the issue, which is Obama should not have bowed as he did to any other head of state. It is just more evidence of how he is not qualified to be President of the United States. Just because you think he can do no wrong shows your bias. For people who criticize Bush and Palin for every action, you sure don't set the bar very high for Obama.

wow, how ironic you link that article that basically agrees with everything i said.

"This picture shows two things," my friend writes.

"1) The 'right' is wrong about Obama's bow.

"2) The 'left' is wrong about Obama's bow.

His bow is neither (1) unprecedented nor (2) a sign of cultural understanding.

amazing. thanks.

[migopod]

This is an interesting photo essay.


I'm actually beginning to think that Obama wasn't bowing at all. He was just ducking in order to fit in the photo with the teeny-tiny emperor of Japan. It looks like he's almost twice as tall as Akihito!

[Bayou Bum]

wow, how ironic you link that article that basically agrees with everything i said.



amazing. thanks.

As usual, you only read the part that agrees with you. One, this was an opinion by someone who in the first line declared a supporter of Obama. Two, it references the source of Kyodo news that you said didn't exist. And finally, there is a big difference between the slight bow that the Emperor and Nixon gave each other and the bend over Obama did for the Emperor. I guess it could have been worse ... he could have turned around first!

So, in 200 years you find one President that bowed, and he was impeached and resigned from office. I would be happy for Obama to resign.

[Bayou Bum]

This is an interesting photo essay.


I'm actually beginning to think that Obama wasn't bowing at all. He was just ducking in order to fit in the photo with the teeny-tiny emperor of Japan. It looks like he's almost twice as tall as Akihito!

Okay, both Obama and Bush were complete idiots with foreign leaders. I never said Bush wasn't. Great company your idol is keeping, he can bend over more than Bush!

And study your history and see if you can determine what was going on with Eisenhower and DeGaulle.

[noodle]

One, this was an opinion by someone who in the first line declared a supporter of Obama.

wouldn't that make his criticism of what happened more significant, then?

or do you just want to keep linking new articles and spouting new talking points instead of addressing the ones you already mentioned and left for dead once challenged?

Two, it references the source of Kyodo news that you said didn't exist.

i never said the news source didn't exist, i asked for the exact article that you quoted.

And finally, there is a big difference between the slight bow that the Emperor and Nixon gave each other and the bend over Obama did for the Emperor.

yes, there is, in many ways, but you've yet to outline any rational reason why you, yourself, have such a huge reaction towards what he did. especially when its clear that you don't understand the customs he was attempting to follow.

lets try this exercise -- what were the differences between the bows that the emperor and nixon did, and the bows that the emperor and obama did?

[Purple Fencer]

lets try this exercise -- what were the differences between the bows that the emperor and nixon did, and the bows that the emperor and obama did?

One was to a Chinese, one was to a Japanese??

[migopod]

One was to a Chinese, one was to a Japanese??

I think that history will show that Hirohito was at least as Japanese as his son.

[telkanuru]

So, in 200 years you find one President that bowed, and he was impeached.

Your grasp of US history is astounding.

[migopod]

And study your history and see if you can determine what was going on with Eisenhower and DeGaulle.

And the wife of the Prime Minister of Italy?

[noodle]

since we're having more linking fun:
http://www.canada.com/news/Japanese+...891/story.html

Before meeting the emperor, foreign envoys and visitors are usually told that bowing is important, said Isao Tokoro, professor of imperial studies at Kyoto Sangyo University.

"When visiting a foreign country, it is an admirable international manner to follow the country's own protocol," he said.

"It should be praised and never deserve criticism. In Japan, bowing never means the person underestimates himself."

While some conservative commentators on U.S. talk shows charged that the gesture bespoke a United States that had become weak and overly-deferential under Obama, Japanese media took a more positive view.

"If Obama simply walked up to the emperor and shook hands as he stood tall, he would have looked very arrogant to us," said a Japanese presenter with Nippon Television.

[NGV]

I cannot locate the original source but the quote is also listed in this article from ABCNews.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpu...are-wrong.html

What the heck are you talking about? The mythical "quote" from Kyodo News about Obama making a fool of himself is not listed anywhere there. Are you really this clumsily dishonest, or do you just have problems with reading comprehension?

[NGV]

That said, while the link doesn't mention the nonexistent Japanese news report, it does have some amusing comments. My favorite is the one from "Patricia" at 10:03 AM - make sure to read all the way to the punch line at the end.

DECEMBER 7, 1941

Theodore Roosevelt: "A date which will live in infamy".

4 battleships sunk,
4 battleships damaged including 1 run aground
2 destroyers sunk,
1 damaged
1 other ship sunk,
3 damaged 3 cruisers damaged
188 aircraft destroyed,
155 aircraft damaged,
2,345 military and
57 civilians killed,
1,247 military and
35 civilians wounded
4 midget submarines sunk,
1 midget submarine run aground,
27 aircraft destroyed,
55 airmen, 9 submariners killed and
1 captured

WHO GIVES A DAMN ABOUT THE "EDIQUETTE" OF THE BOW? BOWING TO THEIR EMPERIOR?

OBAMA have you ever actually studied American History?

[Bayou Bum]

wouldn't that make his criticism of what happened more significant, then?

I thought you said there was no criticism.

yes, there is, in many ways, but you've yet to outline any rational reason why you, yourself, have such a huge reaction towards what he did.

Yes I did. Because Obama's bow was more than just a polite greeting. Obama deliberately took a position of subservience to the Emperor of Japan. Even the article you posted mentioned a bow of the head was a friendly greeting and any bow beyond 45% is a posture of apology. Plus, as I mentioned, he was to maintain eye contact with arms at his side. And finally, every other world leader greets the Emperor with a handshake. And liberals wonder why they are viewed as unpatriotic!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5U6fL7Y4BZA

lets try this exercise -- what were the differences between the bows that the emperor and nixon did, and the bows that the emperor and obama did?

Your pretending to be ignorant is not becoming. For one, the exchange between the Emperor and Nixon was mutual but there was no mutual exchange between the Emperor and Obama as you imply.

Obviously, the liberals here do not care what Obama does or doesn't do and your hypocrisy is evident in how you so eagerly criticize Bush but find justification for Obama. The fact that you and the others keep trying to compare his bow to other Presidents greetings doesn't change the fact that Obama prostrated himself to another foreign leader.

[fencerchica]

1. Bowing was a gesture of courtesy appropriate within the cultural context. Many other sitting US Presidents have, rightly, bowed and showed various other contexually appropriate gestures of courtesy towards other heads of state. Conservatives appear to be arguing Obama shouldn't have bowed. How would they feel if another head of state refused a handshake? Boors.
2. Obama bowed a little awkwardly. Big frackin' deal. Japanese are used to clumsy foreigners and are usually gentle about judging them when there is obvious good intent. However, conservative critics look (even more) moronic when they show themselves drooling to split hairs over precisely how many degrees Obama bowed, what he did with his hands, and all this other desperate-ass B.S. This is your sense of perspective in the face of the challenges our country confronts today?
3. Did any of you conservatives even take a couple minutes' time out from this bow-bullsh!t to notice Obama's efforts to mend our horrifying trade deficit with China?

[Bayou Bum]

What's he going to do, borrow another Trillion? And Cap and Trade is really going to help a lot!

[noodle]

I thought you said there was no criticism.

oh? did i really?

oh i agree, like i said, he did mess it up. i'm arguing against the notion that he shouldn't have bowed at all because the american president should bow to no one. the reasoning for the gesture was appropriate, but it was badly executed.

like i said, he messed up. but to take his minor gaffe and turn it into some sort of international incident is ridiculous, on many levels.

Yes I did. Because Obama's bow was more than just a polite greeting. Obama deliberately took a position of subservience to the Emperor of Japan. Even the article you posted mentioned a bow of the head was a friendly greeting and any bow beyond 45% is a posture of apology. Plus, as I mentioned, he was to maintain eye contact with arms at his side. And finally, every other world leader greets the Emperor with a handshake. And liberals wonder why they are viewed as unpatriotic!

again, yes, he executed poorly. i said that from the start.

however, you're intentionally misreading or misrepresenting the article i linked for your own purposes. i underlined the discrepancy.

In Japan, the lower you bow, the more respect you show, from a slight nod of the head to a lean forward of 30 degrees and -- the most respectful of all -- a deep bow bending at the waist by at least 45 degrees, experts said.

Bowing can also represent an apology in Japan, where it is not uncommon to see scandal-hit corporate executives doubled over in front of the television cameras to show their remorse for wrongdoing.

show me where that says that a 45% bow means apology. it says that a low bow means deep respect. a very convenient misrepresentation on your part.

Your pretending to be ignorant is not becoming. For one, the exchange between the Emperor and Nixon was mutual but there was no mutual exchange between the Emperor and Obama as you imply.

yes, the nixon exchange was mutual. and no, the obama exchange was not, because the circumstances around the exchange demanded that it not be. he really could've almost done anything with respect to bowing or not and gotten away with it, though.

Obviously, the liberals here do not care what Obama does or doesn't do and your hypocrisy is evident in how you so eagerly criticize Bush but find justification for Obama. The fact that you and the others keep trying to compare his bow to other Presidents greetings doesn't change the fact that Obama prostrated himself to another foreign leader.

once again, i didn't justify what obama did. i said he screwed up, but it was minor at worst.

and once again, i find it hilarious that you automatically assume that anyone who disagrees with you is liberal. we went over this in another thread, and you even respectfully apologized to me then. you had my respect then, but you've lost it with this pile of garbage. i guess you don't learn your lessons, or you've changed over the last few months.

[Purple Fencer]

That said, while the link doesn't mention the nonexistent Japanese news report, it does have some amusing comments. My favorite is the one from "Patricia" at 10:03 AM - make sure to read all the way to the punch line at the end.

I have to wonder if the poster there ever studied American history.....since Pearl Harbor happened during FRANKLIN Roosevelt's term, not Teddy's...y'know, since Teddy died in 1919 and all...22 years BEFORE PH...

[Purple Fencer]

I think that history will show that Hirohito was at least as Japanese as his son.

Oops! My bad....for some reason I thought he was bowing to Mao....I didn't look closely at the pic, since I thought it was a reference to Nixon's China trip.

Had I looked I would've recognized Hirohito.