Eligibility of Graduate Students

[Thud13]

Hey all! I am currently a Junior in college and, as much as I love fencing, my school just has a club team. We compete for fun with other club teams, but as of this time, I have never done a varsity sport.

I was curious about graduate school. Considering I have never played a varsity sport, nor have ever won money in a competition, do I still maintain my four years of eligibility?

Thank you!

[jessicasimpson]

you have 5 years of eligibility, but starting from your graduation from high school. So, if you went straight to collage, and graduate in 4 years, then you will have 1 year of eligibility left

[KD5MDK]

This is going to be best addressed by the compliance departments of the schools you are considering attending, as are just about any NCAA question.

[prototoast]

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

This is going to be best addressed by the compliance departments of the schools you are considering attending, as are just about any NCAA question.

No, Jessicasimpson pretty much summed up everything he needs to know at this point compliancewise (though I think he still has to be run through the clearinghouse). The rest is up to the coach, are you good enough that he (or she) would want you on the team for just one year.

[catwood1]

Originally Posted by prototoast

No, Jessicasimpson pretty much summed up everything he needs to know at this point compliancewise (though I think he still has to be run through the clearinghouse). The rest is up to the coach, are you good enough that he (or she) would want you on the team for just one year.

I'd take KD5MDK's advice. Rules between Div 1/2/3 are not the same, but I don't know the intricacy of the details. Talk to a compliance officer...

Or you could always take the always 100% accurate advice of some random person on the interwebs.

[prototoast]

Originally Posted by catwood1

I'd take KD5MDK's advice. Rules between Div 1/2/3 are not the same, but I don't know the intricacy of the details. Talk to a compliance officer...

Or you could always take the always 100% accurate advice of some random person on the interwebs.

If this guy has been in college n years (where n<=4) then he most likely has 5-n years of eligibility left. That's really as much as he needs to know right now. It isn't sufficient to make him eligible, but the rest will be worked out by the school. The next step is to find out if his graduate school has any interest in him being on the team. If the coach doesn't want him, it's not worth the time. If the coach does want him, then he can work out the details with that schools compliance office which now has some reason to care.

[eac]

Why do you want to fence in the NCAA, which has crappy formats and a limited competitive field, instead of in real tournaments, which have not-crappy formats and wide competitive fields?

[KShan5[PrFC]]

Originally Posted by eac

Why do you want to fence in the NCAA, which has crappy formats and a limited competitive field, instead of in real tournaments, which have not-crappy formats and wide competitive fields?

Because college fencing is fun; it's a lot of fun in fact. And it's the only place in fencing that you can really find the atmosphere and experience that competing on a college team provides.

[eac]

Would you care to elaborate? Why is it more fun than normal tournaments? What is the atmosphere and experience?

(genuinely curious)

[KShan5[PrFC]]

Originally Posted by eac

Would you care to elaborate? Why is it more fun than normal tournaments? What is the atmosphere and experience?

(genuinely curious)

It's the team environment that you really cannot simulate in a USFA format. Regular team events don't really even come close. Fencing not just for yourself, but your teammates and your school, having a huge crowd of teammates behind you cheering after every touch, winning that 14th bout to win a meet, going to a party with a bunch of college fencers afterward. There are certainly advantages to fencing a USFA tournament (namely the ones you mentioned), but the fun of collegiate fencing should not be ignored.

[eac]

Do you think it's the FIE team format that sucks, or just that nobody in the US has team spirit during anything but NCAA competition?

I hear the frogs get pretty riled up about their national team competitions, and then they seem to have better cohesion and disproportionately better results in the international team.

I imagine it could be that it's hard to contrive a system where results of national team competitions actually matter for anything, and it's hard to get people who are used to slaving after points to get riled up about something that doesn't determine which other tournaments they get to go to.

Then again, maybe part of what makes people good at teams (and/or what makes teams fun) is the ability to get riled up about things that may or may not have consequences for them as individuals, which we suck at as a country. But, consistently and bizarrely, that problem evaporates when you start talking about the NCAA teams of people's colleges, whether it's football or fencing. Which I never got, maybe because I never got that fantastically excited about my own university (Carnegie Mellon), even though I think it's the best for what I do (robotics).

[KShan5[PrFC]]

Originally Posted by eac

Do you think it's the FIE team format that sucks, or just that nobody in the US has team spirit during anything but NCAA competition?

A little bit of both. Part of the problem is that team competitions are squad based and NCAA competitions are 3W team based. Thus making the team larger, and more people for you to "fence for." Plus, school spirit is usually stronger than USFA Club spirit in general.

I hear the frogs get pretty riled up about their national team competitions, and then they seem to have better cohesion and disproportionately better results in the international team.

Sure, the team event at nationals can get pretty cool. But how often does that really happen? Once a year. So outside of that one event (or 2 if you count juniors) at Nationals, there really isn't a good comparison. And again, while similar, they are still quite different.

I imagine it could be that it's hard to contrive a system where results of national team competitions actually matter for anything, and it's hard to get people who are used to slaving after points to get riled up about something that doesn't determine which other tournaments they get to go to.

Is it really that hard? You don't think Nick Chinman was excited to be NCAA champion last year? That because it was a college tournament he didn't care as much as when he was fighting for points? You think it really didn't matter to Gerek Meinhardt that he lost that final bout because it was for college and not to make a team? And here we're just talking about the elite of the NCAA fencers. What about the majority of them who will never make a team, or ever be in any serious contention for one? For those fencers qualifying for NCAAs is just as important if not more than any Div1 NAC result.

Then again, maybe part of what makes people good at teams (and/or what makes teams fun) is the ability to get riled up about things that may or may not have consequences for them as individuals, which we suck at as a country.

You keep saying that NCAA events have little to no value to the individual, but that's simply not the case. Again, considering that the vast majority of NCAA fencers are not going to make a team, other events, such as NCAA tournaments have a huge amount of value. Qualifying for NCAAs has been the career achievement for many fencers, and they will have that with them forever. Do you really not see how qualifying for NCAA Nationals could be more important to someone than making the 16 at the second DivI NAC in some given season?

And, as mentioned in previous posts. College fencing is fun. It's a different environment, that if you have the opportunity, I strongly suggest you take advantage of.

[foillion]

Originally Posted by kshan5[prfc]

and, as mentioned in previous posts. College fencing is fun. It's a different environment, that if you have the opportunity, i strongly suggest you take advantage of.

qfmft.

-p

[eac]

Gah, massive misunderstanding. By the frogs, I was using the colloquialism for the French, which in retrospect was unclear. I was saying that the French get excited during their team competitions, where I think we don't get all that excited during our USFA ones. At least, not like the French do. Don't get me wrong, there have been some exciting USFA team events.

Also, I'm fully aware that people do get very excited about the NCAA, but I'm saying that it's isolated to that.

Then, by saying it's hard to contrive a system where national team competitions actually matter, I was saying it would be hard for the USFA to make something up where a national team event somehow had wider implications, like national teams. Then, the point about people getting riled up about things that have no direct consequences for them as individuals was saying that we have trouble doing that outside of NCAA competitions. Clearly, as you say, people do get very excited about the NCAA. But not as much about USFA team events.

[KShan5[PrFC]]

eac....I'm curious have you ever fenced for a college team and if so where/when??

[epeemike81]

Originally Posted by KShan5[PrFC]

eac....I'm curious have you ever fenced for a college team and if so where/when??

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say if he has "where" was Carnegie Mellon...

-m

[MyrddinsPrecint]

Originally Posted by KShan5[PrFC]

]What about the majority of them who will never make a team, or ever be in any serious contention for one? For those fencers qualifying for NCAAs is just as important if not more than any Div1 NAC result.

As a truly mediocre fencer who will never make a team, never be in any serious contention for one, and may never be eligible for a Div1 NAC, I have to state that while I fenced on a club team, the victories and defeats faced by my squad were always a lot more meaningful than the USFA meets during the same time period.

In addition to the fun of having people have your back, there's the challenge of having each other's backs. To learn how to warm up your teammates, to figure out how to cheer for them, when to call a time out (if format allows), what to say to get them out of a funk....

It's nice to have a USFA club. Having been a member of a couple, some are better than others about taking care of each other. But there is simply not the reason and opportunity to take care of each other that there is in college fencing.

If you're on the UMass cheering squad, after Nationals, you've lost your voice or you're not doing it right. Who could say that about any USFA event??

[seak]

Originally Posted by jessicasimpson

you have 5 years of eligibility, but starting from your graduation from high school. So, if you went straight to collage, and graduate in 4 years, then you will have 1 year of eligibility left

This is true for Div 1, but not for Div 3. Div 3 is based on semesters, and slightly different, but I don't remember exactly of the top of my head.

That being said if you compete against varsity college teams with your club, that might also impact your eligibility.

I would say check with the schools compliance office, but I wouldn't bet on being able to fence varsity in graduate school, and you should choose a graduate school for other reasons.

Also collegiate fencing=awesome experience

[oiuyt]

For Division III an athlete may compete for up to four years during his or her first 10 semesters of full-time collegiate enrollment. Unlike Division I there is not a set time limit for how long those 10 semesters may take.

-B

[eac]

Originally Posted by KShan5[PrFC]

eac....I'm curious have you ever fenced for a college team and if so where/when??

No, I haven't. I mostly snubbed the CMU club when I got there, but I've since begun to appreciate it. To my knowledge it doesn't compete as a club against other schools, though; its members just practice some, and then go to USFA tournaments.

So I'm completely an outsider looking in, and my two reactions are a) some mystification about why NCAA is such a big deal, and then b) some interest in why the team aspect works so well in NCAA but not as well in the USFA, and a comparison to other successful team programs internationally.

For what it's worth, I also think NCAA football is dumb.