Italian Grip?

[fatfencer]

[redacted to keep on topic.]

How about we just agree that I will use the Italian as much as I wish due to my RSI and be done?

[I_luv_saber]

Allen,

Great post. Easily the most well thought out and thorough assessment of the subject I've seen thus far, and not just in this thread. Rep is deserved.

Both of those were given by Allen Evans. Many of the things he said were stated before. It's just people choose not to accept them.

True, but I don't think anyone has stated them as clearly and concisely before. It's clear enough that if anyone asked me questions about the Italian grip and competition, I'd point them to that post. It's easy to understand and follow, and concentrates all the main points in a single post rather than being spread out over the forum...

Again, well done.

[Superscribe]

Yes, well done.

Ahem.

Hopefully people remember this and refer to it, in case this discussion comes up in the future. Like it has in the past.

[Gaunai]

Well, I got my Italian in yesterday from thefencingpost, I love the foil. It's making me practice my parry more than the flick. I got beat in every match I had except for one, but it was a much more enjoyable match on my part. Something about the grip just feels right to me, hopefully I will be better once I get adjusted to this grip. Which I think in the long run will help my "game."

Not to mention everyone practically lined up to play around with her. I guess the grip is like a hot exotic asian chick coming to visit.

[JackOfHearts]

Well, I got my Italian in yesterday from thefencingpost, I love the foil. It's making me practice my parry more than the flick. I got beat in every match I had except for one, but it was a much more enjoyable match on my part. Something about the grip just feels right to me, hopefully I will be better once I get adjusted to this grip. Which I think in the long run will help my "game."

Not to mention everyone practically lined up to play around with her. I guess the grip is like a hot exotic asian chick coming to visit.

Best of luck with the new foil. Once you get used to the proper fingering, you'll be able to handle her better. It may not work for everyone, but that doesn't matter so long as it feels right for you.

And I dunno about you, but I'd be rather uncomfortable with my clubmates playing around with my hot exotic asian chick. O-o

[Inquartata]

easy to dislodge from the fencers grip, requiring the use of a strap to provide more support.

Odd. I used to use an Italian-grip epee in SCA fencing, never used a strap, and never had this problem, even against heavier weapons. I certainly don't see how it could be any less secure than a French grip, which as has been noted still sees a good deal of use in modern sport fencing.

For that matter, most SCA "rapiers" seem to use the same sort of grip, although with the quillons extended out past the rings, shells or cup, as Italian fencing set-ups cannot do. I don't see a lot of people losing their grips on those, either...

( Admittedly, I have not used the things against pistol-gripped opponents. )

The rest of your objections points look sound enough.

[Allen Evans]

I don't know what kind of blades the SCA fencers are using. It could be that the style of blades (and combat) don't allow the sort of froissements that occur in sport fencing, especially if the blades don't have distinctive edges but are rounded. I never fenced in the Society and paid no attention to rapier play. I do know that when I talked to a few SCA fencers, they had no idea about what a froissement even was, so it could be that they aren't encountered very often in SCA bouting (but my sample is too small to jump to any conclusions).

And, of course, no one in the Society is using a pistol grip, as you point out, so it's like against like.

[Inquartata]

All sorts of blades are used, but when I started it was mostly standard non-electric epee blades.

I used the Italian epee against a variety of other grips. There weren't a lot of options in the beginning, so one saw mostly French or home-made straight grips, a few Italians and home-made cup-hilt rapier grips ( which are almost identical to Italians except for quillons which extend well past the edge of the guard ).

Epees were eventually abandoned in favor of the heavier blades which were thought to simulate rapiers better. I have had the experience of having my epee blade bend at about 80 degrees after parrying a heavier "schlager"-bladed weapon, but I don't ever recall losing the grip or feeling a lack of security from the design of the thing...

Maybe I just have wrists and fingers of steel.

These days blades vary wildly in length, weight and section. Guards also vary greatly, from simple cross-hilts to elaborate arrangements of rings, knucklebows, pas d'anes, shells and cups. But most of the grips seem to be of the general Italian-type arrangement.

I'll add that they have to take on not only other blades but daggers, bucklers, and all manner of bizarre off-hand weapons as well. I just don't see many disarmaments, though.