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Senior Member
Array 
Research is fun! So at the risk of feeding trolls and encouraging him, I'd actually like to take a moment to thank Chase for this thread. It never serves anybody to have their dogmas go unchallenged, and it's always good to consider what we "know to be the Truth". Environmental issues are especially interesting, since there's almost never a perfect solution to any problem. The Prius, for example, is nice since it has better fuel economy and reduced emissions. It's also an ecological nightmare because of the batteries that they use. Plug-in electrics are great because they're zero emissions, but they suffer from the same battery issue as the Prius and depending on your source of mains power may just transfer the emissions from your tailpipe to a coal-burning power plant.
I'm a metals guy, so when I saw a post essentially saying that recycling is pointless because it's always more expensive to recycle than it is to consume raw resources, I first went to the metals example because it's so immediately and obviously wrong. Metals don't tend to degrade in quality when they're recycled, and it's always more expensive and energy intensive to extract a metal from an ore, and mining has a huge environmental impact beyond energy consumption.
In my initial serious post, I mentioned that I wasn't sure about the relative costs of recycled vs virgin glass and paper. Turns out, that glass is a particularly interesting problem. Some types of glass are much more desireable than others from a recycling perspective. Raw materials for glass are essentially sand and additives. Sand is abundant and available. Glass is relatively harmless (sharp, but bury it and you're okay), but in some cases the recycling process can actually release toxins that are otherwise innert.
So in some cases recycling is a total no-brainer. Either to reclaim resources that are finite and precious or simply to reduce environmental contamination. In other cases it seems less obvious, and the question of whether or not to recycle is boiled down to the value of reducing landfilling vs the value of pure cost savings, or with respect to paper reducing clear-cutting and the severe environmental impact of logging. Either way, it's an interesting issue.
The more you know.... Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem
~
^[:wq
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Senior Member
Array 
 Originally Posted by migopod  So at the risk of feeding trolls and encouraging him, I'd actually like to take a moment to thank Chase for this thread. It never serves anybody to have their dogmas go unchallenged, and it's always good to consider what we "know to be the Truth". Environmental issues are especially interesting, since there's almost never a perfect solution to any problem. The Prius, for example, is nice since it has better fuel economy and reduced emissions. It's also an ecological nightmare because of the batteries that they use. Plug-in electrics are great because they're zero emissions, but they suffer from the same battery issue as the Prius and depending on your source of mains power may just transfer the emissions from your tailpipe to a coal-burning power plant.
I'm a metals guy, so when I saw a post essentially saying that recycling is pointless because it's always more expensive to recycle than it is to consume raw resources, I first went to the metals example because it's so immediately and obviously wrong. Metals don't tend to degrade in quality when they're recycled, and it's always more expensive and energy intensive to extract a metal from an ore, and mining has a huge environmental impact beyond energy consumption.
In my initial serious post, I mentioned that I wasn't sure about the relative costs of recycled vs virgin glass and paper. Turns out, that glass is a particularly interesting problem. Some types of glass are much more desireable than others from a recycling perspective. Raw materials for glass are essentially sand and additives. Sand is abundant and available. Glass is relatively harmless (sharp, but bury it and you're okay), but in some cases the recycling process can actually release toxins that are otherwise innert.
So in some cases recycling is a total no-brainer. Either to reclaim resources that are finite and precious or simply to reduce environmental contamination. In other cases it seems less obvious, and the question of whether or not to recycle is boiled down to the value of reducing landfilling vs the value of pure cost savings, or with respect to paper reducing clear-cutting and the severe environmental impact of logging. Either way, it's an interesting issue.
The more you know.... Liberal lies! recycling is just like Hitler! "There is a fine line between clever and stupid" David St. Hubbins
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Moderator
Array 
Originally Posted by jessicasimpson Liberal lies! recycling is just like Hitler! WWII started in '39 prior to the Japanese recycling Pearl Harbour!
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Senior Member
Array 
Originally Posted by jessicasimpson Liberal lies! recycling is just like Hitler! Hey, when recyclers send cans and bottles off the be destroyed, they actually get a shower first.....
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Curmudgeon Emeritus
Array 
Who, the recyclers? Are you implying that they otherwise eschew personal ablutions, or what? Use the Shift key, people! Keyboard manufacturers everywhere are ineffably saddened when you ignore what they made just for you!
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Senior Member
Array 
The misplaced modifier police have run in another perp! "In theory, theory and practice are the same, but in practice, theory and practice are different."
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Senior Member
Array 
Thereby initiating a turf war with the jack-booted thugs of the Personal Pronoun Antecedent Authorities... "Sometimes we, as coaches, get into that dictator mode where you just tell and you don't listen and you don't try to understand them." Tom Izzo, Mich. St.
"Fraud is the creation of trust. And then: its betrayal."
William Black, Ph.D.
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Curmudgeon Emeritus
Array
Use the Shift key, people! Keyboard manufacturers everywhere are ineffably saddened when you ignore what they made just for you!
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