Here's an example: the recent Obama-led defense bill that kills a bunch of wasteful stuff that doesn't help protect us. Things that were canceled were not only not needed for defense, but the military actually said they weren't needed.
There's a lot of Republican rhetoric (and Dem. too, to be fair) about cutting wasteful spending, but nobody had the courage to actually fight the lobbyists and the "jobs in my district" slaves until now. A very nice accomplishment, saving us money and improving our safetely, all of a week ago
The flip side to this takes us right back to the Fox News thread. Not only do Fox and its dittoheads not acknowledge successes when Democrats are responsible, they fail to blame Republicans when they screw up. Eight years of Republican presidency, and much of that time with Republican ownership of the House and Senate, and apparently everything was perfectly managed all that time (I don't have time to list all the screwups again - they're on the Fox thread already).
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"In theory, theory and practice are the same, but in practice, theory and practice are different."
Y'know....I have to wonder if those 2 and Slim are actually fencers....
Chase has to be at least slightly acquainted with fencing, because on the fencing discussion "ROW question" thread he recommended doing the no-class, skanky, jackass instant black card "Bellguard to the mask".
I have no idea if Slim or BB fence, and doubt that chase is any good at it.
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"In theory, theory and practice are the same, but in practice, theory and practice are different."
You have to go back to rural electrification to find a Democrat program that worked! LOL
I couldn't have said it better!
The clinton admin was a little sooner than rural electrification.
The rural elec reference works (imho) because of the parallel arguments from the conservatives
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"There is a fine line between clever and stupid" David St. Hubbins
Here's a recent one: Dem led (and Obama signed) legislation to cut the credit card rate gouging mentioned in the recent CItibank thread. Bill last year gave too much time to the banks to screw the public (banks said they needed the time to "change their systems" but used it to get usury-level rates implemented), and the new bill to make the terms effective next month.
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"In theory, theory and practice are the same, but in practice, theory and practice are different."
The clinton admin was a little sooner than rural electrification.
The rural elec reference works (imho) because of the parallel arguments from the conservatives
The clinton admin was not a democrat program. You haven't named anything. You have to be a little more specific. Are you talking about his perjury, obstruction of justice, or sex with interns in the oval office?
And I am surprised you mentioned rural electrification since it led to all the global warming. With it came urban sprawl, people moving to the country, commuting in SUVs to work in the city, the need for more fossil fuel power plants, houses filled with disposable electric appliances and electronic devices, etc, etc. It also led to the creation of FoxNews.
Have to cut it short. I'm late for Bible study. More later.
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Obamacare: If at first you don't succeed, lie, lie, lie again!
The clinton admin was not a democrat program. You haven't named anything. You have to be a little more specific. Are you talking about his perjury, obstruction of justice, or sex with interns in the oval office?.
I was thinking more of record growth, balanced budget, lower crime, ect. ect.
Or how about changing the Arpanet into the Internet and revolutionizing the way information is accessed around the entire world
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bayou Bum
And I am surprised you mentioned rural electrification since it led to all the global warming. With it came urban sprawl, people moving to the country, commuting in SUVs to work in the city, the need for more fossil fuel power plants, houses filled with disposable electric appliances and electronic devices, etc, etc. It also led to the creation of FoxNews.
Have to cut it short. I'm late for Bible study. More later.
I didn't think you would catch the global warming since it does not really exist. The point of rural elec. was to stimulate growth. It worked. It is the reason you have electic sevice.
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"There is a fine line between clever and stupid" David St. Hubbins
The point of rural elec. was to stimulate growth. It worked. It is the reason you have electic sevice.
Worth pointing out that this was the "socialized medicine" of the day, according to the right-wingers who opposed it. That it was an outstanding success that increased prosperity and improved the lives of millions of people pretty much makes the point...
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"In theory, theory and practice are the same, but in practice, theory and practice are different."
The rural elec reference works (imho) because of the parallel arguments from the conservatives
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff
Worth pointing out that this was the "socialized medicine" of the day, according to the right-wingers who opposed it. That it was an outstanding success that increased prosperity and improved the lives of millions of people pretty much makes the point...
That was exactly my point
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"There is a fine line between clever and stupid" David St. Hubbins
Worth pointing out that this was the "socialized medicine" of the day, according to the right-wingers who opposed it. That it was an outstanding success that increased prosperity and improved the lives of millions of people pretty much makes the point...
It was nothing like socialized medicine. The government regulates utilities but it is not in the business of providing electricity. You don't pay your utility bill to the IRS and the government doesn't require you to purchase electricity and use the IRS to force you to pay for something you don't use. With electricity, you can purchase as much or as little as you want and pay for it as you go.
And of course, it is typical of a liberal to want to dictate prosperity and how everyone should live. Before REA, many farms used wind to provide electric power. Wow, maybe we wouldn't have all this global warming if the free market had been allowed to function properly.
The point is, just because you believe something is best for everyone doesn't mean that everyone agrees with you or wants you to dictate how they should live. I'm sure there are plenty of Amish that have no need for your electricity or health care, but screw them because you know best, right?
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Obamacare: If at first you don't succeed, lie, lie, lie again!
As usual, you're talking about something you're completely ignorant of. We're talking about the Rural Electrification Act. part of FDR's New Deal in the 1930s. It was government-led program to provide electrical service to populations that the private sector utilities had refused to serve. It was indeed the "socialized medicine of the day, and the private sector whiners of the time complained about it on that basis. So it fits in directly as a comparison to the current situation with healthcare.
"The REA was created on May 11, 1935 with the primary goal of promoting rural electrification.[1] In the 1930s, the U.S. lagged significantly behind Europe in providing electricity to rural areas due to the unwillingness of power companies to serve farmsteads.
Private electric utilities argued that the government had no right to compete with or regulate private enterprise, despite many of these utilities having refused to extend their lines to rural areas, claiming lack of profitability. Since private power companies set rural rates four times as high as city rates, this was a self-fulfilling prophecy.[2] Under the REA there was no direct government competition to private enterprise. Instead, REA made loans available to local electrification cooperatives, which operated lines and distributed electricity.
By 1939, the REA served 288,000 households, prompting private business to extend service into the countryside and to lower rates."
Of course The Social Security Administration was built under FDR's tenure, and that is run by the government, and I am sure that no one has ever benefitted from that......
The problem with todays version of the Republican Party is that they have become so polarized in their ideals, that they can't recognize that others who are not Republicans might actually have a good idea. And given how they treat some members of their own party who aren't conversative engough for the Rush Limbaughs of the world, see NY 23 Congressional District race, I am amazed how many of you rush to your party's defense.
Things that wouldn't have happended without a democrat in office:
Civil Rights Act - Johnson Administration
New Deal - FDR
Social Security Administration - FDR
Banking and Securties Regulation - FDR
Anti-Trust Legislation
OSHA - I belive was Woodrow Wilson. If you really want to read up on what work conditions were like in the early 20th century, read The Jungle. Although if you like to eat hot dogs, you may never want to eat one again.
NASA - Kennedy
Balanced Budget - Clinton
The problem these days is the polarization of our political parties. There are times these days that I wish our Founding Fathers had decided on a parlimentary system of government rather than what we have today.
The problem with todays version of the Republican Party is that they have become so polarized in their ideals, that they can't recognize that others who are not Republicans might actually have a good idea.
Dave
You have to understand the ideals of the Republican Party. They think there are no good ideas, because they feel that the Government can't do anything right. They are completely vindicated in their opinions, because every time their party gains control, nothing gets done right.
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"There is a fine line between clever and stupid" David St. Hubbins
As usual, you're talking about something you're completely ignorant of. We're talking about the Rural Electrification Act. part of FDR's New Deal in the 1930s. It was government-led program to provide electrical service to populations that the private sector utilities had refused to serve. It was indeed the "socialized medicine of the day, and the private sector whiners of the time complained about it on that basis. So it fits in directly as a comparison to the current situation with healthcare.
Not refuting this, just being sure to point something out: This was indeed a very successful program with many parallels to the health care debate of today, however you'll note in this situation the answer was not to socialize, but firm regulation, and co-ops to ensure utility providers were providing to even those who were not considered profitable. I think this has worked out pretty well for the most part. This doesn't really refute anything you've said, just wanted to bring attention to that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by davesaint
Of course The Social Security Administration was built under FDR's tenure, and that is run by the government, and I am sure that no one has ever benefitted from that......
This also brings attention to something: This was a case where the government decided to run something itself, rather than let the private industry do it and get involved indirectly. While it has still served it's purpose, it's also now a giant weight on our neck.
In this particular case, I'm not really sure it's something the private sector could have handled well anyway, but it's worth noting the comparisons between two programs each taking a different route to solving a problem... (Rural Electrification vs. Social Security)
I really do think a similar approach to health care could solve our problems just as well as it did utilities back then. The problem is essentially the same one.
Just $.02 on the matter...
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"I may disagree with what you have to say, but I shall defend, to the death, your right to say it."
Last edited by I_luv_saber; 11-07-2009 at 05:32 AM..
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