HPD (Michael Pederson) Resigns

[darius]

That went downhill fast.

darius

[telkanuru]

Actually it was meant to avoid saying something rude that might upset "MyrddinsPrecint" further.

When the preferred way of expressing yourself is by calling someone "a moron" and then allude to the fact that you are going to leave the name calling to that person's "ex-boyfriends" there are a few conclusions that can be made.... one of them the "m" word... which I might add is not gender specific by definition.

Although the "current" boyfriend and I had a good laugh when we read his post... I decided NOT to post the initial response we had.... although I'd wager you probably would have found that much funnier than the sanitized response I posted.

Well, now it's time to do what was asked of me.

You're a moron. I might need to talk to Paul about having stupid people be the face of his club online. He might not approve.

[Superscribe]

That went downhill fast.

darius

Oh but not nearly fast enough.

I delight in such trainwrecks.

Evaluna, it would be slightly more entertaining for me if you accused telkanuru of being a girl.

I think that's the only way out for you now. Whatever you do, don't stop the accusations.

[evaluna]

Oh but not nearly fast enough.

I delight in such trainwrecks.

Evaluna, it would be slightly more entertaining for me if you accused telkanuru of being a girl.

I think that's the only way out for you now. Whatever you do, don't stop the accusations.

I didn't quite object to being called a "moron", it was the reference to the "ex-boyfriends" which in a passive/aggressive way was meant to get a certain point across.

Having gone to medical school at a time when 10% of the class was female, and practicing in a specialty that is still about 70-75% male it's behavior I'm quite familiar with, although it's not as common now as it was 20 years ago, which means the poster is probably over 40 and likely over 50..... and believe me.... it rarely comes from women and unfortunately it's quite common among men, particularly when they are feeling territorial and threatened.... so there's no chance I'll be accusing telkanura of being a girl.

Finally, as I stated in my first post, I speak only for myself, and am not afraid to own my opinions. They do not belong to anyone else. Is that unusual around here???

[Grasshopper]

and am not afraid to own my opinions. They do not belong to anyone else. Is that unusual around here???

All your opinions are belong to us

[Omar Bhutta]

Having gone to medical school at a time when 10% of the class was female, and practicing in a specialty that is still about 70-75% male it's behavior I'm quite familiar with, although it's not as common now as it was 20 years ago, which means the poster is probably over 40 and likely over 50..... and believe me.... it rarely comes from women and unfortunately it's quite common among men, particularly when they are feeling territorial and threatened.... so there's no chance I'll be accusing telkanura of being a girl.

I try only to post about issues related to refereeing, but as a neutral party to this discussion (I don't know the real identities of you, telk, or MP - nor do I really care if we have an HPD or who it is), I had to ask a clarifyng question:

Did you just justify your gender-identification mistake on the fact that you went to medical school and primarily work with men? Really? It's okay because you're a doctor?

Slightly appalled,

Omar J Bhutta
(male, for those wondering about my screen name)

[MyrddinsPrecint]

I didn't quite object to being called a "moron", it was the reference to the "ex-boyfriends" which in a passive/aggressive way was meant to get a certain point across.

I... I... what was the point I meant to get across? Because I thought I knew, but after reading this bit, I'm not sure anymore...

See, what I thought I meant was that I felt as if what I ought to be doing was bluntly insulting you based on how other popular current and former forum members would have acted. I tried it. It didn't feel as fulfilling as I expected it to. I decided to leave that tone to, for example, one of my ex-boyfriends and current friends, Telk. ... Who then did call you a moron, and probably found it somewhat more fulfilling than I did.

The way you're talking, it seems like what you thought was I'm waiting for your ex-boyfriends to beat you up or something like that. I... don't know them, so I don't know if that's something they might do. And I'm also not really sure that that's what you're suggested that you thought I was suggesting-- but if I'm right, I think it's pretty ****ed up that you automatically assume that people on the internet are threatening you through your ex-boyfriends. You might want to see someone about that. Sounds pretty paranoid. Just saying.

It's also possible that you're trying to willfully and passive-aggressively attack me by playing the victim. I hope that's it, in case I ever meet your ex-boyfriends.

Having gone to medical school at a time when 10% of the class was female, and practicing in a specialty that is still about 70-75% male it's behavior I'm quite familiar with, although it's not as common now as it was 20 years ago, which means the poster is probably over 40 and likely over 50..... and believe me.... it rarely comes from women and unfortunately it's quite common among men, particularly when they are feeling territorial and threatened.... so there's no chance I'll be accusing telkanura of being a girl.

Are you referring to yourself when you say "the poster"? Are you referring to me? To Telk? To a pictorial often placed on walls for decoration?

"It rarely comes from women..." ... What is "it"? Uh, I can parse that "it" is a behavior, but I really can't parse anything else.

It's also very problematic to make sweeping judgments of specific communities (like people posting on fencing.net) by your experiences of other specific communities (doctors). The online world and the face-to-face world are very different, for one. Fencing.net is pretty unusual, for another. Also there's the problem where sweeping judgments are often inaccurate and usually unpopular even if somehow accurate.

I'm also not entirely sure who you think is "territorial" or "threatened". I know you must think you're a big bad intruder or something, but, seriously? I'm gonna tell you again-- I'm finding this really funny. Less funny now that I'm having to explain that to you-- Explaining makes a joke less funny-- but I think it'll take a while for the funny to wear off, so we can keep going for a while.

Finally, as I stated in my first post, I speak only for myself, and am not afraid to own my opinions. They do not belong to anyone else. Is that unusual around here???

You're more than welcome to your opinions. Just don't be surprised if people, including your club mates, end up judging you based upon both your opinions, and how you express them.

[edew]

[...]
Did you just justify your gender-identification mistake on the fact that you went to medical school and primarily work with men? Really? It's okay because you're a doctor?

Slightly appalled,

Omar J Bhutta
(male, for those wondering about my screen name)

I thought that was one of the perks of being a doctor. It's written into the health care reform bill that docs can still act all high and mighty. Or so I was told.

[PeterGustafsson]

Hi!


I just got a vision of the future for American Womanhood:

Evaluna, Mango, and Sarah Palin. Add 150 million more of the same caliber, and we have one half of USA in the year 2030.

Seriously: Evaluna - I implore you - please reread what MP actually has written in this thread. It is entirely possible that you originally were reading something else at the same time, or that there is some other reasonable explanation for your appearent mixups. However, your continued good reputation on this discussion board is in dire need of some re-understanding of other´s postings on your part, followed by an explanation of, and apology for, some of your recent postings. Please do it.


Have a nice time!

Peter Gustafsson

[Grasshopper]

...Did you just justify your gender-identification mistake...

I had to justify the same kind of thing after a crazy night in Mexico and way too much tequila, but that is a story for another day...

[pillow]

I would like to suggest that the personal attacks continue, if necessary, by PM.

I feel it is more important to consider the fact that we do not have a HP director. I invite comments as to whether that is something that should be of concern, or does it really not matter in terms of the development of our fencers.
Can things be handled by the National Coaches with administrative help from Kurt and Christine? Are there other options?

[brtech]

Andrea provides a whole lot of assistance, especially on trips. She is awesome. What Christine and Ashley do for domestic events, Andrea does for international events that USFA supports (team events).

[Capt. Slo-mo]

When she's not secretly conspiring to bring about the ruination of fencing, if you believe the Beck-like ramblings of certain posters.

Seriously, a HPD guru to set policy, designate meets & training camps, and administer athlete contracts...plus Andrea to handle the Worlds and Pan-Am team arrangements and logistics--that's a pretty lean and mean administrative structure without the baggage and expense of catering to an ever-shifting cadre of National Coaches with their sometimes divided loyalties.

[pillow]

When she's not secretly conspiring to bring about the ruination of fencing, if you believe the Beck-like ramblings of certain posters.

Seriously, a HPD guru to set policy, designate meets & training camps, and administer athlete contracts...plus Andrea to handle the Worlds and Pan-Am team arrangements and logistics--that's a pretty lean and mean administrative structure without the baggage and expense of catering to an ever-shifting cadre of National Coaches with their sometimes divided loyalties.

So you are saying that the NCs should be eliminated?

[downunder]

Andrea provides a whole lot of assistance, especially on trips. She is awesome.

Speaking as someone who has filled in as a US referee for European internationals, this is 100% true.

[fatfencer]

I... I... what was the point I meant to get across? Because I thought I knew, but after reading this bit, I'm not sure anymore...

See, what I thought I meant was that I felt as if what I ought to be doing was bluntly insulting you based on how other popular current and former forum members would have acted. I tried it. It didn't feel as fulfilling as I expected it to. I decided to leave that tone to, for example, one of my ex-boyfriends and current friends, Telk. ... Who then did call you a moron, and probably found it somewhat more fulfilling than I did.

I thought you were a lesbian.. oh I'm so confused.

[Capt. Slo-mo]

So you are saying that the NCs should be eliminated?

It's certainly worth a look. Eliminating the 6 NC slots saves between $120K and $180K a year, which could be used to subsidize an aggressive hire for an HPD and an office person.

Let's think for a moment of what the National Coach currently does...or should do. He/she designates the international meets; administers the weapon budget; sometimes holds National Training Camps; and attends the World Championships with the squad.

The HPD, in consultation with coaches who have students in the top ranks of international competitors, could decide what meets to designate. The HPD, with the help of a dedicated office person (perhaps using one of the coach's salary slots) could monitor the books for the weapon squads. After all, someone in the new USFA accounting environment is doing so now with the NC budget reports, presumably.

The HPD could hold national sabre, foil and epee training camps several times a year in the Springs, if deemed appropriate. If not, there are many training camps before and after Summer Nats held by most of the top private coaches, anyway. Plus, these private camps often conflict with efforts to hold true National Training Camps...because the coaches seem to have a gentlemen's agreement not to pull from each other's camps. The HPD would have no such geas.

For all the World Champs, there is already a head honcho (Team Captain) designated to stride the strip, divining disadvantage to Americans from the machinations of the wily European consortiums. Beef that slot up, and encourage each of the US Team members to bring their own personal coach, if they feel it's beneficial. This way, you eliminate the problem of a National Coach tending to his private student(s) first, while the rest of the team languishes.

Team events are where the HPD might need to do some delegating. If the HPD is not present, then a Team coach for the event can be appointed from among the coaches who will be present. This is similar to what was done in Beijing, where the athletes were polled to designate secondary or tertiary coaches for stripside, should the National Coach be unable or unwilling to come to their matches.

It puts a severe onus on the HPD to be organized and involved, but it also takes a lot of the egos and manipulations out of the system, and streamlines administering the international events a bit.

[pillow]

All interesting ideas. However, didn't the USFA just pick new National Coaches, after posting a rather comprehensive job description? Therefore I doubt anything will change until after the 2012 Games.

More likely, the position of HPD may be eliminated now. This will allow the National Coaches to run their independent programs as usual. But..maybe with Kurt and Christine involved there will be better coordination and communication.
Each coach may simply argue they are the best people to plan overall strategy for a particular weapon, and the HPD would be redundant.

[Capt. Slo-mo]

Well, sure...but then, did you ever have a discussion with a National Coach in which they admitted personal inferiority in anything? Or that there is a better way than their way?

I have very little doubt that the current situation is pretty much set in stone, but it never hurts to explore alternatives.

[Inquartata]

When she's not secretly conspiring to bring about the ruination of fencing, if you believe the Beck-like ramblings of certain posters.

Well, I think that there must be two of her, one good, one evil. Sort of like Spy vs. Spy, USFA-style.