FIE rules and stuff

[ShadyLane]

For those of you who know your FIE rules and stuff, I have a question. When can you switch weapons during a DE bout? Only if it's broken and the judge knows, or when you feel like it (e.g. like, I don't feel comfortable fencing this weapon anymore, can I switch it, even though it is working properly)? I heard of some "delay of match" rule...so if switching working weapons for others during the bout is okay, how many times before they think you're delaying the bout??

Also, what if weapon doesn't work all the time (but sometimes works, I guess it's called intermittent?? Forgot the term for it), guy asks to switch it, judge instead asks fencer to test it again and it works, then judge says to use same weapon? Can you still argue to switch it claiming that it's broken?

Can someone point me to the FIE rules for this?

I only see t.45 but that doesn't say much about working weapons and switching.

Thankies!

[Mihail]

The weapon doesn't have to be broken for you to switch it.
There's no rule for how many times you can switch, probably to allow the referee to use flexible judgment.

I don't think I've ever seen it happen, but I imagine if you switch for a third time, and there hasn't been any sign of a problem, s/he'll give you a yellow card.

[downunder]

From the other thread:

There's no specific rule. The referee has to understand the fight and what's going on. As a mostly foil referee, a request to change foils is usually preceded by 2/3 'valid' attacks that haven't come up. I have no problem with that change.

To be honest, you can probably confiscate, test and test jackets/guards in about 30-45 seconds so I don't think it's any more of a useful tactic than say doing up your shoelaces or even straightening a foil a few times. Plus the fencer doesn't get their first choice weapon back.

I have found that posters on this forum are more likely to card for 'delay of bout' than any referee I've met (including the US internationals).

[Craig]

I have found that posters on this forum are more likely to card for 'delay of bout' than any referee I've met (including the US internationals).

I think it's more like:

I have found that posters on this forum claim that they are more likely to card for 'delay of bout' than any referee I've met


---
Craig

[Allen Evans]

I have found that posters on this forum are more likely to card for 'delay of bout' than any referee I've met (including the US internationals).

Though, on the other side of the coin, the ONLY referee to tell me that he would absolutely not let a fencer change weapons, or would subject a fencer to a card if they did (when the weapon was proven to be working) was an FIE referee.

So. Milage may vary.

[catwood1]

i think it's more like:

I have found that posters on this forum claim that they are more likely to card for 'delay of bout' than any referee i've met

qft...

[Katherine]

...So. Milage may vary.

Quick fix it before Inq sees it....mileage

[Fencergrl]

Shady... the local refs are usually pretty relaxed when it comes to rules. I suspect it won't be an issue.

[ShadyLane]

Though, on the other side of the coin, the ONLY referee to tell me that he would absolutely not let a fencer change weapons, or would subject a fencer to a card if they did (when the weapon was proven to be working) was an FIE referee.

So. Milage may vary.

So...if a ref allows the switching of a weapon (that was working properly), that would be okay. If the ref doesn't allow the switching of a weapon (that was working properly), that would be okay too??

[KD5MDK]

It would be within the rules. Referees have a professional obligation to grow and develop their discretion as they accumulate experience, and this is something I would tend to take as an indication of that discretion.

[pinkelephant]

There are many reasons why one might want to change a weapon that's apparently working properly, and as a referee I would allow them all, within reason. The most obvious is the one Downunder has described, where a foil is less tolerant of "bounce-off" than is normal - no detactable fault but the fencer no longer trusts the weapon (and the ref probably agrees) - it's probably a total resistance issue. Or, at epee, there is an intermittent fault that is very infrequent, but again, the fencer just doesn't trust it (and it may all be in his/her imagination anyway). A fencer may want to change to a different handle - French to pistol or vice versa - either for tactical reasons or some physical reason. I used to keep one epee with a slightly smaller handle than the others for when my tennis elbow started to get bad (sounds illogical but it worked for me).

Contrary to popular belief, an epee with an intermittent problem is NOT working properly. As a referee, you can test an epee as many times as you like when a fencer presents it to you for testing - it only has to not work ONCE out of however many tries for you to annul the hit. If I'm suspicious about a weapon, or if the fencer asks me to test more than once, I'll usually test at least 3 times, bending the blade different ways as well as testing straight on.

[Superscribe]

You are such a nice ref.