Help! American Fencing History

[L'Escrimeur]

Hello, I'm new to the forums, so I'm not sure if this is in the right spot. Anyway, I am currently doing research for a paper on the early (like really early) days of the AFLA/USFA, from the 1880's-1930's, and the organization of American Fencing in general. I haven't really come across that many sources for that era, and was curious if anyone here (just assuming there is) had any suggestions for resources. I have the 1891 and 1905 rules, which are pretty funny to see how much things have changed, and a few other articles from the period. Besides that, I'm not sure. Again, not sure if this is in the right place.

Thanks

[Mergs]

You need to seek out Andy Shaw, who is Shreaveport, LA. He, IIRC, is the USFA historian. He also has a Fencing Museum there. Another person to check is John Trojanowski aka Schaeger7.

[schlager7]

One source you might check out is A History of the Amateur Fencers League of America by Gay D'Asaro. It was her masters thesis, written in 1983. While never commercially published, you should be able to get access to a microfiche copy via an interlibrary loan. That, at least, is how I was able to read it last year.

Another source is The Book of Fencing by Eleanor Baldwin Cass (1930). While much of the book is another fencing instructional work, it also includes peeks at fencing in the US in such locales as California and Texas, the problems of equipment being cut off during WWI, and the captain's report to the AFLA on the results of the 1928 US Fencing Team.

The New York Times is searchable online, very helpful during the early organizational period.

Hope these are of some help...

[L'Escrimeur]

Cool. Thanks much.

[kuroutesshin]

I don't know how much this might help, but just in case. Michigan State maintains the Schmitter Collection of rare fencing documents in Special Collections... I don't know what's in there, a majority of it is definitely older (1600s, 1700s, mid 1800s) but there may be some documentation on the AFLA.

It's Special Collections, so you can't InterLibrary Loan it, but just thought I'd point you somewhere. Grad student? Undergrad? Just for fun?

[ladyofshalott99]

No idea where you live, but if you're really serious about this research, I'd suggest a visit to the Library of Congress.

You'll first need a library card. (This process can be quick, but there may also be a line. I got through in about 20 minutes. They have three staging areas where you have to declare who you are, why you're there, and get your photo taken for your card, which is free. It's pretty painless, actually, which is not usual for the Federal government )

The place with the most "historic" books about fencing are in the John Adams building (amazing art deco architecture, btw). You may want to get your library card late in the afternoon one day, and visit Adams the second, because the research part takes a very, very long time. I believe that I was on the top floor.

You'll need several days during the week, however, to perform your research, and you will definitely need a librarian to help you get started. They can pull books for you, which you can Xerox, take notes from, and keep on a shelf for you to refer to over a two-week period, but you CANNOT check books out of the LoC to remove from the premises (or even the main rooms where each library section is located). In this respect, it's much different than your municipal library. The second reason is because almost ALL of the books in the LoC are located in the stacks, which are closed to the public.


The librarians are very kind people. When I mentioned I was interested in books on fencing, they immediately pulled up a list of more than 20 books that they could immediately obtain--and that was just to start. Many are rare and out-of-print, but are available for the average person to examine at their leisure

The actual books are wonderful...I really wish I'd had more time than a few hours to look through them. I saved the list of titles I was interested in, because I'd like to go back again someday and REALLY read through them. They had some books on or about fencing that dated back as far as the mid-18th century--but those are special requests, and they take time to pull from the archive, so this is why you want to go early in the day, should you choose to go at all.

Definitely on my life list of fencing-related places to re-visit...

[oiuyt]

you CANNOT check books out of the LoC to remove from the premises (or even the main rooms where each library section is located).

I seem to recall Ben Gates demonstrating a method of "checking out" a book from the LoC a couple of years ago....

-B

[LordShout]

As a matter of school pride I'd like to point out that the Schmitter fencing collection is larger than the LoC's collection. (A brief poke around their website leads me to believe they have around ~600 results for fencing, but this includes construction and other such extraneous results)

http://specialcollections.lib.msu.ed...ncing_coll.jsp

Although they do have different foci.

[Mr.MightyMouse]

As a matter of school pride I'd like to point out that the Schmitter fencing collection is larger than the LoC's collection. (A brief poke around their website leads me to believe they have around ~600 results for fencing, but this includes construction and other such extraneous results)

http://specialcollections.lib.msu.ed...ncing_coll.jsp

Although they do have different foci.

How fitting and sad is the fact that Mr.Schmitter's endowment exists to purchase written works on fencing in school which has cut the fencing program of which he was it's first coach.

http://usfencinghalloffame.com/index...=113&Itemid=52

Wonder what he would chose to do with the money - buy books, or fund a fencing team.

[kuroutesshin]

How fitting and sad is the fact that Mr.Schmitter's endowment exists to purchase written works on fencing in school which has cut the fencing program of which he was it's first coach.

http://usfencinghalloffame.com/index...=113&Itemid=52

Wonder what he would chose to do with the money - buy books, or fund a fencing team.

He actually donated his own library to form the nucleus of the collection. The man gave his whole life to fencing, and much of that to Michigan State. There's a reason why we have a trophy with his name on it here.

But regardless of scholastic politics, it's an amazing resource. The hours for Special Collections are a bit wonky (I've never been in there myself) but from what I've seen and heard there's a wealth of knowledge if you know what you're looking for.

[Mr.MightyMouse]

He actually donated his own library to form the nucleus of the collection. The man gave his whole life to fencing, and much of that to Michigan State. There's a reason why we have a trophy with his name on it here.

But regardless of scholastic politics, it's an amazing resource. The hours for Special Collections are a bit wonky (I've never been in there myself) but from what I've seen and heard there's a wealth of knowledge if you know what you're looking for.

I've gathered that from the website - but there seems to be an endowment also; it is just sad that the school whose team was founded by a Hall of Fame member - has a large fencing library, but not an NCAA team.

[ladyofshalott99]

Can we get a mod to sticky this thread? It's a good resource--should probably be archived so that others may locate libraries with large fencing collections.

[oiuyt]

Can we get a mod to sticky this thread? It's a good resource--should probably be archived so that others may locate libraries with large fencing collections.

Not sufficiently good that it should clog the top of the main screen forever more.

-B