Fencing is too fast

[FritoBandito]

I have this weird problem when I fence. Its almost like I black out when something happens... im fine up until the point where it gets fast.. like someone lunges at me I chose my reaction... then it gets crazy and someone gets the point or we back away.
I'm still doing things when im "blacked out" but I just do things instinctively, often good things. But once I hear halt i dont usually know what happened. My coach will say great relunge+carte but I just take his word for it. I sometimes remember snippets of what happened but nothing concrete.
Is this normal or can you remember everything that happened?

As a solution to this, I have always just trained moves to be instinctive. It works because I react very quickly as my brain is not involved... so its not all bad :P

Im I weird? Any thoughts?

[TrainingDummy]

It's pathological. I'd recommend a lobotomy. I say this as a two-time world champion epee fencer and neurologist.

[Grasshopper]

lay off the Jack Daniels bro

[Speranzo]

Hey FritoBandito,

My coach often said that there are three mindsets in fencing: attacking, defending, and EEEK! Attacking and defending are pretty self explanatory, and EEEK (or panic) is a blank mindset that happens when you have no idea what's going on. The experiences you describe sound a lot like EEEK.

Since EEEK is a mental state, one way around it is to train your body to act on its own, without input from your mind. It sounds like you've developed this option pretty well. Another thing to work on might be predicting your opponent's actions based on the logic of combat: surprises (like sudden, fast lunges) are a major trigger for the EEEK mindset, so if you can predict your opponents actions you'll be surprised less often, and that will reduce the time you spend in EEEK.

You could also fence at an increased distance for a while: that would give you more time to figure out what's going on, letting you pass from EEEK to the attacking or defending mindset before making an action. Hope this helps!

~Speranzo

[Rockstar44]

I have this weird problem when I fence. Its almost like I black out when something happens... im fine up until the point where it gets fast.. like someone lunges at me I chose my reaction... then it gets crazy and someone gets the point or we back away.
I'm still doing things when im "blacked out" but I just do things instinctively, often good things. But once I hear halt i dont usually know what happened. My coach will say great relunge+carte but I just take his word for it. I sometimes remember snippets of what happened but nothing concrete.
Is this normal or can you remember everything that happened?

As a solution to this, I have always just trained moves to be instinctive. It works because I react very quickly as my brain is not involved... so its not all bad :P

Im I weird? Any thoughts?

How old are you? It sounds like you have contracted CRS, a disease that strikes many of us who are more chronologically experienced. The only way to....to....uh....

What the hell was I talking about?

[parrythis]

OK - serious answer here...

Many fencers go through this same issue. Learning to see and dissect the action is often a learned skill.

Try spending some time on the side of the strip watching the action. (This takes the fight-or-flight adrenalin rush out of the equation.) After you watch two fencers execute a phrase, describe the action (out loud) as you saw it. Identify who started the attack. Describe the opponent's reaction to the attack. What did the attacker do next?

Do this with others and compare notes. What did one person see differently than another. Be patient. It takes time to develop this skill. Over time, you will train your mind to capture a short "film strip" of the action that you can replay and analyze.

Better yet, do some reffing.

[counter riposte]

Ok. Other serious answer...

Have your eyes examined. If your reaction time is coming too late, you may be nearsighted, which is why your opponent has already hit you before your hand starts to react.

Work on hand/eye coordination drills which will improve your ability to hit with point control (foil/epee) or controlled action (saber). General hand/eye drills will assist as well (i.e. juggling).

[Coldfire]

Its definitely normal to not remember cerain things about a touch or a bout. Theres too much going on with your own actions, what your opponent is doing, what you are thinking etc to keep track of everything. I've definitely had moments where my coach asked what I did and I blank. It doesn't help if you're in a competition and have the adrenaline pumping.

You brought up something else interesting in your post though. The difference between fencing based just on instinct (reactive fencing) and fencing with your head (tactical fencing). The former may work well up to a certain point and against certain fencers, but eventually you are going to learn how to do the latter.

[Gav]

I have this weird problem when I fence. Its almost like I black out when something happens...

A basic piece of advice I'd give is, when something happens, try not closing your eyes.

[FritoBandito]

Try spending some time on the side of the strip watching the action. ...Identify who started the attack. Describe the opponent's reaction to the attack. What did the attacker do next?

I like this... I will try it at practice tonight. This is quite honestly not something I have ever tried to develop, I am a horrible ref. utterly horrible.

f your reaction time is coming too late, you may be nearsighted, which is why your opponent has already hit you before your hand starts to react.

Nothing is happening too late, in fact because what I do is instinctual im often very fast. Side note: I am in the process of getting contacts though because I dislike fencing in my glasses... periferal vision. I dont think thats actually my problem though.

[RITFencing]

A bit off topic... relunge and carte?

I assume you mean reprise and quarte (four?)

[RkfdFencer]

The difference between fencing based just on instinct (reactive fencing) and fencing with your head (tactical fencing). The former may work well up to a certain point and against certain fencers, but eventually you are going to learn how to do the latter.

I'll take it a step further and say that you will have to learn to do the latter to succeed beyond a certain point.

Of course, this may have been what you were really saying Coldfire. Just wanting to emphasize and clarify.

[Allen Evans]

A basic piece of advice I'd give is, when something happens, try not closing your eyes.

This isn't quite as silly as it sounds. Many fencers actually DO close their eyes when making some actions. I was told this once, but never believed it, until I tried looking directly into a student's eyes (through their mask) when they were executing a beat attack, which they always seemed to have trouble with.

The student blinked every time they beat. It took a bit of training, but eventually they stopped blinking on the action.

[Coldfire]

I'll take it a step further and say that you will have to learn to do the latter to succeed beyond a certain point.

Of course, this may have been what you were really saying Coldfire. Just wanting to emphasize and clarify.

Yeah, sorry I left out that important word.

[Grasshopper]

relunge+carte

I don't know what this is but it sounds delicious. Does it come with ice cream?

[garyhayenga]

As a solution to this, I have always just trained moves to be instinctive. It works because I react very quickly as my brain is not involved... so its not all bad :P

Im I weird? Any thoughts?

All fencing moves must be trained reflex. It moves far too fast for cognitive involvement during a phrase. All thinking, all choosing of options, has to be done before you get on guard, otherwise you'll be too slow.

Now knowing what you've done and what your opponent did after it's happened it is also very important, because if you're doing something that's not working you have to come up with a new plan.

I suggest that in practice bouts that you try watching yourself fence. Pick your plan (or plans, offensive and defensive) and then just let it happen. Don't let your brain get involved but keep it observing, I always picture mine hovering just above and behind my right (weapon) shoulder, so that after a touch you can say "I attacked 4 and he parried and riposted" or "I got too close and he attacked in my preparation." Then you can say to yourself, "So I'd better attack from longer distance, or feint disengage."

[crquack]

Quote:
Originally Posted by FritoBandito
relunge+carte

I don't know what this is but it sounds delicious. Does it come with ice cream?

I do not know the answer to that but I was told you should never put a carte before whores.

[ysbadadden]

As others have said:
Doing
is different
from understanding, imagining, or remembering
what you do.

You need to PRACTICE consciousness.
It's not automatic or easy.

[Redblade]

The same thing happens to me when I have sex.

[touchefriend]

Some of my students here in Thailand have similar problems. It really could be your eyes and I'm curious to know how you do in contacts. You also have to keep breathing; some people tend to hold their breath when a quick action takes place. It also may help you to try a specific set of actions when you start a 5 touch bout(practice) Try doing the same attack exactly over and over. Then try the same reaction to an attack over and over. I know this sounds a little simplistic but if you are a beginning fencer, a few simple actions will let you build your game to the point where you can be completely "aware" of when to change your game.