dry fencing judge hand signals

[foibles]

I can't quite recall the hand signals the 4 judges use in dry fencing.

Seems like there was a different hand signal for:

• Yes touch- on target
• Yes touch- off target
• No touch
• Abstain
• Parried

I kinda remember that abstain was putting your hand sideways in front of your eyes, and that a successful parry was a fist?, a touch was an upraised hand...

Anyone recall for certain?

[edew]

I doubt there were any standardized system for signaling the actions. Otherwise, it would have transferred over to electric fencing. And we all know that until recently, there were no consistent hand signals for all three weapons. Basically, it was point here or there, make hand gestures while saying some words and then pointing out who got the touch.

[Allen Evans]

I judged a lot of dry bouts in College. There were no hand signals (other than raising your hand to show that a touch had occurred). When polled by the director you were allowed to respond only with:

Yes, touch.
Yes, but touch off target.
No touch.
Abstain.

[epeemike81]

What was the hand signal for "get me the **** out of here! I can't believe some jackass has me trying to judge dry fencing."

-m

[noodle]

What was the hand signal for "get me the **** out of here! I can't believe some jackass has me trying to judge dry fencing."

-m

i think they obsoleted that one when it was being made on every call

[Philistine]

It wasn't really standardized (members of the same team or same club often used more or less the same ones) but the mid-80's sabre signals that seemed common where I was fencing (all were done in conjunction with saying yes, no, abstain, off-target) were:

--a hand up for a hit (usually you'd do a short up down "chop" kind of thing as a yes).

--A closed fist for no--usually putting the flat of your other hand on top for parried, and it was common to say "parried." If it just missed, IIRC most people just used the fist, and again would often say "short" or "missed" instead of "no."

--For off-target, you'd sometimes see the "yes" signal while saying off-target, and you'd sometimes have the judge touch themselves in the approximate location where it hit and say off-target.

--For abstain, it was pretty much a "shrugging" of the hands (the movement you make with your hands when you're saying you don't know something).

The only actually "standard" or required "signal" was putting your hand up during the fencing when you saw a hit. Some people made no hand signals at all other than this.

--Philistine

[foibles]

Thanks all.

I'm glad to know I wasn't imagining the whole hand signal thing-- or that in our little corner of the universe we were the only ones hand jiving our way through the dry bouts before we got our electrics kicked in.

I had thought I was going to direct some dry bouts as a favor to the local college club this saturday. I don't think I'll be available... but that's what got me thinking about it.

Should I need to ref dry, I think I'll forgo the signals of the past in favor of the current ones used by the ref. Might as well teach 'em the right signals.

[foibles]

What was the hand signal for "get me the **** out of here! I can't believe some jackass has me trying to judge dry fencing."

-m

I think that one was a fist with 2 fingers pointed out and the thumb pointed up. The 2 fingers were placed in your mouth (or possibly held to your temple) and the thumb was moved up and down.

It was a furtive gesture between refs when they thought the fencers weren't looking. I still catch them in this now and again when it's my turn to fence.

[Ron West]

Don't have any comment on the signals from the judges, but there is an additional vote. "Yes - abstain to target"

[pinkelephant]

Worst experience of my life - reffing a pool of 8 Under 10s dry foil. I had to keep telling the little ****ers to turn round and watch the fencing.

[KD5MDK]

Why did you do that? The only way you can impose reality on your side judges is if at least one is willing to abstain so you can overrule the other.

[ShadyLane]

For those of you who know your FIE rules and stuff, I have a question. When can you switch weapons during a DE bout? Only if it's broken and the judge knows, or when you feel like it (e.g. like, I don't feel comfortable fencing this weapon anymore, can I switch it, even though it is working properly)? I heard of some "delay of match" rule...so if switching working weapons for others during the bout is okay, how many times before they think you're delaying the bout??

Also, what if weapon doesn't work all the time (but sometimes works, I guess it's called intermittent?? Forgot the term for it), guy asks to switch it, judge asks to test it again and it works, then judge says to use same weapon? Can you still argue to switch it claiming that it's broken?

Can someone point me to the FIE rules for this?

I only see t.45 but that doesn't say much about working weapons and switching.

Thankies!

[downunder]

For those of you who know your FIE rules and stuff, I have a question. When can you switch weapons during a DE bout? Only if it's broken and the judge knows, or when you feel like it (e.g. like, I don't feel comfortable fencing this weapon anymore, can I switch it, even though it is working properly)? I heard of some "delay of match" rule...so if switching working weapons for others during the bout is okay, how many times before they think you're delaying the bout??

There's no specific rule. The referee has to understand the fight and what's going on. As a mostly foil referee, a request to change foils is usually preceded by 2/3 'valid' attacks that haven't come up. I have no problem with that change.

To be honest, you can probably confiscate, test and test jackets/guards in about 30-45 seconds so I don't think it's any more of a useful tactic than say doing up your shoelaces or even straightening a foil a few times. Plus the fencer doesn't get their first choice weapon back.

I have found that posters on this forum are more likely to card for 'delay of bout' than any referee I've met (including the US internationals).

[Grasshopper]

I have found that posters on this forum are more likely to card for 'delay of bout' than any referee I've met (including the US internationals).

I am yellowing carding the two of you for thread-jacking. The oldies are having sepia images of dry handsignals and you are distracting them.

[ShadyLane]

I am yellowing carding the two of you for thread-jacking. The oldies are having sepia images of dry handsignals and you are distracting them.

Oops, my bad! I'll make a new topic then...I'm not a big fan of making topics. I sort of figure this had something to do with judging, although less to do with hand gestures...*cough*