Video 1980 NCAA Fencing Foil Finalists

[MdA]

There has been a discussion in another thread about college fencing in the USA. It got me thinking about my college fencing experience and reminded me of this video. I decided to post it so that kids today can get a glimpse of what collegiate fencing was like in the 1980s.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Cw8OmpBQww

Vintage ESPN coverage of the 1980 NCAA Fencing Championships hosted in Recreation Hall at Penn State. It was provided by Andy Bonk the 1979 NCAA Foil Champion and runner up in this video. There is an introduction with video of the top 24 collegiate foil fencer in 1980 with two bouts by the top four finalists. It also includes video footage of the legendary Hall of Famer, Dr. Daniel Bukantz as the referee. Fencers include Andy Bonk of Notre Dame, Alexander Flom of George Mason, Ernie Simon of Wayne State, Carlo Songini of Cleveland State and Wendell Kubik of Air Force.

…a little background on the origin of this video….and its relation to the college fencing experience. Andy Bonk gave a copy of this video to my son Steve Kubik at last year’s Notre Dame Alumni banquet.

Andy and I fenced each other in High School when he was at Maine South in Park Ridge and I was at Gordon Tech in Chicago, Illinois. We fenced each other again in college at the NCAAs when he was at Notre Dame and I was at Air Force.

The last time I ran into Andy was at the 1989 NCAAs when they were hosted at Northwestern.

[noodle]

i like the barely audible commentary on how the point system and light system should be the other way around.

[prototoast]

It's nice to know that fencing coverage has gotten significantly worse in the past 30 years. Thanks for posting this, it's great.

EDIT: Also, why is he directing in a trucker hat?

[swordsen]

ESPN. What a pity we can't get that anymore.....

[Coldfire]

Thanks for posting this. Pretty cool.

[Tomas N]

It's nice to know that fencing coverage has gotten significantly worse in the past 30 years.

Well, while we're not getting fencing on ESPN nowadays, the play by play in the clip is inferior to Derek's WC commentary. Anybody remember whether fencing appeared on a frequent basis on ESPN back then?

[pillow]

Well, while we're not getting fencing on ESPN nowadays, the play by play in the clip is inferior to Derek's WC commentary. Anybody remember whether fencing appeared on a frequent basis on ESPN back then?

Fencing, along with other less popular sports appeared frequently on ESPN in its early days. Nobody could conceive of an all-sports 24/7 network almost 30 years ago, so they were desperate for programming.

If you contact ESPN headquarters, you may find in their archives other fencing events.

The hairstyles, however, are really scary.

[Purple Fencer]

ESPN. What a pity we can't get that anymore.....

Produce the vids and pay for the airtime....that's how Drum Corps International got on ESPN twice.

[noodle]

Produce the vids and pay for the airtime....that's how Drum Corps International got on ESPN twice.

i've said it before, i'll say it again -- HD television stations are starving for content. produce something in HD and you won't have to look hard to find a good distribution deal. plus, its a good target market for the sport.

[edew]

La plus ca change, la plus le meme chose. Looks like modern foil, given that we can't go flying at each other flicking willy-nilly.

Except for the touch against dealie.

[MdA]

La plus ca change, la plus le meme chose. Looks like modern foil, given that we can't go flying at each other flicking willy-nilly.

Except for the touch against dealie.

That is an interesting point Eric. I agree that it certainly looks a lot like modern foil. So….I guess that this is some evidence that the foil debounce timing changes were successful at setting us back at least 28 years…with additional unwanted side effects.

This definitely is an example of the pre-flick days in American college fencing. Many of the scoring machines at this championship were the old pre-circuit board machines…as evidenced by the light bulb extension lights on the finals scoring table. Those extension lights were the bomb back in those days. You knew you had hit the “big time” when you had those naked light bulbs flashing above your strip….you could get a tan if you fenced a lot in the middle of the strip.

The older machines were inconsistent at registering a flick. The older the machine… the less flicking in the bout. As the newer circuit board machines began to work their way across America….in the 80s and 90s….flicking increased.

It was an interesting time. I remember foil fencers testing the flick on their shoe before a bout….to see what type of actions would be successful. In the pool rounds, many of the machines were older….so you would see less flicks. As you advanced to the finals and the strips with the newer machines…..flicking increased.

Now it appears that we may be about to repeat this cycle….but I don’t think it will take 20 years.

As for ESPN coverage….I agree with pillow that ESPN was starved for sports to cover in those days….a fledgling cable sports channel with no big football contracts. I like the noodle’s idea about producing vids for HD channels. Fencing is perfect for HD, with the potential for exciting slow-mo and stop action shots.

The most humorous parts of this vid are the ancient headsets on the announcers….and the play-by-play guy (Bruno Santonocito) is hilarious…the look on his face as he gets cut-off in mid sentence…by the color commentator (Bob Goldsholl) . I wonder who Bob pissed off at the ESPN front office to get assigned the fencing championships…he seems really ticked off at times. I also love the homemade pink graphics….and the corny graphic with the explanation of the lunge.

I never saw this vid when it was originally broadcast…I didn’t know about cable TV until 1982!

I did some research on the announcers. Bruno Santonocito was captain of the 1961 Stuyvesant High School Championship fencing team and went on to fence at Columbia in 1966. Bob Goldsholl did Mets games in 1980 and was the sports anchor for the New York CBS affiliate from 86-88.

[sheck]

I actually saw the original broadcast. I personally know two of the fencers in this clip. Is the complete broadcast available?

[MdA]

I actually saw the original broadcast. I personally know two of the fencers in this clip. Is the complete broadcast available?

Sheck you must be old like me. Out in the Wild Wild West, we didn’t have access to things like cable TV in those days. I have a DVD but I am not sure if it has the entire broadcast. I think there is about 1 hour of footage including epee and sabre bouts…and interviews.

The foil bouts only include bouts between the top 5. Bonk vs Meudt. Flom vs Songini, Simon vs Bonk. The epee bouts include an Iranian guy fencing for Ohio State. The sabre portion features Paul Friedberg …the champion in 1980 and 81 from Penn. Also included are interviews with Friedberg and Ernie Simon, the foil champion in 1980, …he also won in 1978 and 1981.

I might post some of the epee and sabre, if I get some time. Contact me by PM if you are interested in a copy.

[MdA]

......
EDIT: Also, why is he directing in a trucker hat?

That might be a good question for Jeff. I checked his book and he didn't say anything about his father's taste in hats....for refereeing.

Actually, I think its a great idea. I think the USFA should supply all the referees hats like this and make it part of the uniform.

Those hats were cool back then. My Dad had a collection of his own.

[noodle]

dibbs on "#1 REF"

edit: heh. http://www.cafepress.com/omgfencing

[sah62]

Well, while we're not getting fencing on ESPN nowadays, the play by play in the clip is inferior to Derek's WC commentary. Anybody remember whether fencing appeared on a frequent basis on ESPN back then?

I don't know about "frequent", but I do remember ESPN covering some of our dual meets in the early 1980s. They always seemed to put them on the air at something like 2am eastern time, though. It would be neat to find copies of those broadcasts.

[MdA]

I guess I have been taking a trip down “memory lane” these past few months. I found many old pictures…including fencing pictures. Here is another one I posted recently…

http://www.fencing.net/forums/member...y-another.html

This was a very interesting time in American fencing history …as I am coming to realize. The influx of European fencers was changing American fencing significantly….I realized at the NCAAs that I had much further to go in fencing.

One more interesting note about me and Carlo. The NCAA format is like no other (very strange). In those days, it was one large round-robin (23 five touch bouts) over two days. The champion was determined by total victories with no DE. Carlo was in the race for the championship. I was fortunate to win my bout with him 5-4…with an extra long lunge attack….I lunged longer than all my previous attacks so he thought he was out of distance…and parried late. Needless to say, Andy Bonk and Ernie Simon were very happy… and congratulated me…quietly. I remember that touch like it was yesterday.

I heard recently that Carlo is successful and still fencing today.

This video clip has been posted on Schermaonline by gladius

[gladius]

Fencers include Andy Bonk of Notre Dame, Alexander Flom of George Mason, Ernie Simon of Wayne State, Carlo Songini of Cleveland State and Wendell Kubik of Air Force.

(emphasis added)

I pointed this video and story to Schermaonline.com and Ella Loescher found a more recent update on Carlo Songini dating to 2003...

Excerpts from the article in

http://giornaleonline.unionesarda.il...rticolo=685524


For Carlo Songini fencing was the passport to get a mechanical engineering degree from Cleveland State University, a dream of his since childhood. "I wanted to become a mechanical engineer to become a test pilot for Ferrari," he said.

He started fencing at the age of 10. "I was 12-13 when a national coach spotted me and foresaw a nice future for me as a fencer: 'one day, you'll be a champion.' But I looked at the national team as a dream and the podium as an unattainable goal. When I won I got goosebumps: at the decisive touch I felt like a cat ready to strike with his paw and immediately after the win Iwould take off my mask with a rush of pride."

The evaluation of the national coach turned out to be a prophesy because from '74 onwards Carlo nailed victory after victory and became a member of the national team.

"I made the team when I was 17. Once a month I'd go to Milan for the training sessions."

His love for fencing notwithstanding, Carlo Songini was looking to the future. "I just wanted to get a degree in engineering and I knew that if I staid in Italy I would have never had the strength to leave fencing. The federation would have never allowed me to drop from elite competitive fencing."

At the worlrd Under 20 championships in Vienna he finished fifth and this was the turning point for him. "The fencing coach of Cleveland State University gave me a full scholarship to fence and study mechanical engineering. In exchange I had to defend the colors of CSU in fencing. It was the chance of my life and I grabbed it."

The Italian federation was not happy of this "betrayal" and did all it could to make him come back. "They tried to lure me with the mirage of Moscow Olympics in 1980."

But it was too late: Carlo had made up his mind and most importantly had signed up with CSU. "I would become an engineer!"

In US he suffered from nostalgia missing his native Cagliari and his family. "I've always been very determined in my choices and so was this time...I missed my family, and in phone calls with my older brother and my father I was portraying my life in the US as being very happy, but then when I was talking with my twin brother I really couldn't fake it. I missed Cagliari. Then when my mom was on the phone, she who never fenced, knew how to touch me: all she needed to say was ciao Carlo and tears would well up in my eyes. I missed Cagliari, the family, my twin brother, the sun, everything..."

Today Carlo who never abandoned fencing is a mechanical engineer, not for Ferrari but for another Italian industrial holding. He lives and works since 1992 in France as managing director of a subsidiary of a multinational corporation. "Fencing allowed me to realize myself, to meet new people and never feel uprooted wherever I went. To this day I still train and fence with great pleasure. In fact in Paris I searched and I found a home very close to my fencing club, the Racing Club de France, one of the most prestigious in the world."

(June 5, 2003)

[MdA]

Here is part 2 ....continuation of the bout between Flom and Songini.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aG81KhOt2ak

[MdA]

Part 3

Entire bout between Andy Bonk of Notre Dame and Songini and the beginning of the bout between Ernie Simon of Wayne State (and Australia) and Flom.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTS1VT4uYCQ