saber target area

[esgrima]

I am going to buy a new lame for saber and I have some doubts about what is legal. Watching videos on youtube you can see some fencers with a very tight fitting jacket that whose electric part (target area) finishes higher than others. What is the legal limit? the english translation of the FIE rules doesnt help much either because its rather vague. someone told me that the electric lame has to come down to the hip bones but if this is the case then several top fencers seen on youtube would be cheating. Maybe someone with some experience can tell me which brands of lames give you the best fit and the least amount of target area. Thanks

[Wetmelon]

Find a lamé that covers your jacket on the sides... That's a good guideline as I see it.

As to the EXACT requirement? don't know.

I'm a tall guy (6'2") and i've never had any issues with "short" lamés. Only short in the arms, so I just wear a manchette.

I honestly don't think it matters all that much how low the lame goes, as long as it's within reason. I mean, think of where a flank cut actually hits... like what, the 4th rib? that's a long way from the edge of the jacket :/

[Inquartata]

It's hard to judge without actually checking, because people's body dimensions are so different. The rule is IMO also a bit unrealistic in expecting the lame to remain in exactly the same place and to cover all of the exact same places during the extreme movements of sabre fencing as when at rest in guard position or standing up ( or even lunging ).

What looks like improper fit is hard to gauge from a video.

[esgrima]

Yes, size does matter. 2 or 3 inches extra material is the difference between a light or no light. It`s the difference between a sucessful parry riposte or a parry and loosing the touch due to a remise. what exactly is the rule? It seems PBT's saber lames are longer than Allstar's. The shortest I've seen are the super duty ones from Triplette but nobody seems to be wearing these outside the US. I have a lame from FWF and its a bit longer and baggy. A few years ago I had one from Infinity and it was cut high. As far as, the idea that if it covers your white jacket than your ok for me isn´t very exact. Especially since a lot of fencers white jackets are clearly visible sticking out under the lame.

[downunder]

the sabre rule is different to the foil rule.

For sabre look for the crease that your breeches make leading up to your hips when you bend your legs. The lame must reach the top of that crease.

[Wetmelon]

Yes, size does matter. 2 or 3 inches extra material is the difference between a light or no light.

I honestly don't think it matters all that much how low the lame goes, as long as it's within reason.

2-3 inches is not "Within reason" that's a lot of fabric. Within reason was... maybe an inch? I havne't seen much variation in lame length, myself...

[InFerrumVeritas]

I know that, for foil, it is the top of the hip bones when en guarde. This is very important, as even a little bit can mean the difference between a touch or not. I always assumed this was the same in saber (the requirement, not necessarily the importance).

[Fencergrl]

the sabre rule is different to the foil rule.

For sabre look for the crease that your breeches make leading up to your hips when you bend your legs. The lame must reach the top of that crease.

Listen to the FIE ref above.

[oiuyt]

I always assumed this was the same in saber (the requirement, not necessarily the importance).

Listen to the FIE ref above.

Or just read what the rules say.

t.47 for foil, t.71 for sabre.

-B

[InFerrumVeritas]

Listen to the FIE ref above.

Yeah, didn't see that until after I posted. That's what I get for posting before reading everything.

[SabreReedfrost]

So... If you're fencing someone who you believe to have a too-short lame, can you do something about it? Inquire of the ref?

[Wetmelon]

Sure, if you want to be a jerk...

[Rockstar44]

Or just read what the rules say.
-B

What a concept!

[prototoast]

1) Most lames cover more than they have to.
2) No one will check unless you appear to be flagrantly violating the rules.
3) Wear a hard undergarment that simulates hip bones but extends them higher up (picture old timey football pants/pads to get the idea.

[Rockstar44]

1) Most lames cover more than they have to.
2) No one will check unless you appear to be flagrantly violating the rules.
3) Wear a hard undergarment that simulates hip bones but extends them higher up (picture old timey football pants/pads to get the idea.

Please tell me that you are just being facecious with #3.

[oiuyt]

Please tell me that you are just being facecious with #3.

Of course he is.

The appropriate #3 is:

3) Have surgical alterations made to artificially extend your hip bones to within a hand-span of your armpit.

-B

[DRed]

Um... Hips have nothing to do with the valid target in sabre. See downunder's post and the rules.

[oiuyt]

Um... Hips have nothing to do with the valid target in sabre. See downunder's post and the rules.

The thread's drifted past that point.

The sabre version is:

3) Surgically have your torso split up the middle from the bottom, extending the length of your "thighs" and raising the height of the fold created between the extended thigh and torso until it occurs a hand-span below your armpits.

-B

[prototoast]

Please tell me that you are just being facecious with #3.

Of course I would never actually recommend wearing a cumbersome, rigid undergarment in order to gain a competitive advantage in sabre. Only foilists do that.

[SabreReedfrost]

You know it! I wonder how many people have purposely tried to shorten their target area...?