Making a Scoring Machine

[dognapper0]

I am a fencer with an abnormally large garage. I wanted to make a strip for myself, partly just to have one, not always for actual use. I was looking to make my own scoring box, because I was unable to muster a crap load of money for a real box. I also was looking for a project, now that my weapon/ body cord tester is done. I have the ability and know how to put the timings into a chip, but I want to make sure I have all the timingsand wirings right. I was hoping to only use it for foil and epee, I don't do sabe. I was found all the timings on the BFA site, but it is rather convoluted and confusing... Anyone able to confirm what I was able to deduce would be awesom. I put everything I found in the middle of the acceptable range of timings, so my machine is most likely to be right.



A____B_C A'____B'_C'



For foil:
B-C If they break the circuit for 14ms, a yellow light should go off.
If B and C break the circuit for 14ms and make a circuit with A' a colored light goes off.
B and B' should be both positive, while C and C' are negative, this should prevent the weapons from touching and setting off a light.
The B-C circuit should not set off a light if it is less than 200 ohms.
The A-C circuit, throught the lame, should complete if it less than 500ohms.
The lockout timing is 300ms. After two seconds, the lockout would end.
I am planing a 2 second buzzer, but that could be a little long. THe lights would be 2 seconds, no matter what.

I'm working out the timings and resistance for epee...

[dognapper0]

I also plan to make when A and B complete, have a small white light. This is a short light.

[shlepzig]

There are quite a few discussions in the past in regards to the specifics.

BRTECH and others have posted numerous experiments, circuit diagrams and such for you to peruse for your tinkering pleasure. Here is one such thread with links to other threads and posts.
scoring box design

There are also plans linked in the discussions to overhead and other cheap reel systems:
homemade fencing reels

The VSM Virtual Scoring Machine is also a economic version of what you are doing, and you might consider it an option to purchasing a system:
VSM 2…the future of scoring.

That should get you just about everything you need.

-Shlep

[K O'N]

Originally Posted by dognapper0

I am a fencer with an abnormally large garage. I wanted to make a strip for myself, partly just to have one, not always for actual use. I was looking to make my own scoring box, because I was unable to muster a crap load of money for a real box. I also was looking for a project, now that my weapon/ body cord tester is done. I have the ability and know how to put the timings into a chip, but I want to make sure I have all the timingsand wirings right. I was hoping to only use it for foil and epee, I don't do sabe. I was found all the timings on the BFA site, but it is rather convoluted and confusing... Anyone able to confirm what I was able to deduce would be awesom. I put everything I found in the middle of the acceptable range of timings, so my machine is most likely to be right.



A____B_C A'____B'_C'



For foil:
B-C If they break the circuit for 14ms, a yellow light should go off.
If B and C break the circuit for 14ms and make a circuit with A' a colored light goes off.
B and B' should be both positive, while C and C' are negative, this should prevent the weapons from touching and setting off a light.
The B-C circuit should not set off a light if it is less than 200 ohms.
The A-C circuit, throught the lame, should complete if it less than 500ohms.
The lockout timing is 300ms. After two seconds, the lockout would end.
I am planing a 2 second buzzer, but that could be a little long. THe lights would be 2 seconds, no matter what.

I'm working out the timings and resistance for epee...

I built a few epee-only boxes, and one foil epee box, from Parallax Stamp chips (BS2e, if you're interested) when I started a new club. They work fine and got us fencing for not much moeny, but honestly it's not worth the trouble. Just buy a copy of VSM, get a cheap laptop and fence, is my advice.

K O'N

[crquack]

In my experience building things from scratch does not always translate into savings.

Have you priced your project out? Have you compared it with with e.g. the Hitmate? I know it is only for an epee and has all sorts of flies to it but it is cheap and portable.

[Joe biebel]

As Schlepzig said, look at the VSM system. If you also happen to have a windows computer available, you can own the best scoring system out there for about $150.00. Also, the VSM website has some really basic reels avaialable that are pretty clever and very cheap. Hard to consider building, when such good items are avaialable for cheap.

[SJCFU#2]

You might also try looking for an old, out-of-date 2-weapon machine. Large numbers of them were made obsolete by the 2005 timing change so you might be able to find someone who would be willing to part with theirs for next to nothing.

The downside would be that it wouldn't have proper timing for foil.

[dognapper0]

A large portion of what I want to do is to build my own system. I use an AVR microcontroller for some robotics my brother and I mess with. It seems only natural to use that for the system. I priced it and to get the parts for the box, no reels, it would be around $50. A very cost effective and interesting thing for me. I partly want to do it for the experience.
I did think about getting an outdated machine, but I thought it would be more useful to have correct timings for training.
I did consider using a Microsoft compatible program, but I use Linux, so it would be slow and complicated to use through WINE. Although, writing a program for it in Linux would work, but cost a lot of money, for something that would still require a lot of work.
As for the links to ther threads on the subject, thank you so much, that is exactly what I was looking for. It is a huge help. Thanks!

[dognapper0]

Just a note, I just noticed that I did my picture wrong above... I understand which i should have drawn, but I wrote the post in my first period Study Hall... I was still asleep...
I also was toying with using a wireless system for the scoring machine, but I think that may be a lot more complicated, so I may build up to that...

[SJCFU#2]

If you are going to insist on building your own then you might consider looking for the plans for the original VSM (the build-it-yourself version). It wasn't perfect however most of the major problems were related to saber so it might be adequate for your purpose (plus you can simplify construction by eliminating the weapon selector switch).

[Wetmelon]

You know what i didn't see on that thread "Scoring box design"? Nobody bothered to mention the fact that the small stand for some of the boxes SUCKS. When you try to press the button to change weapon, the damn thing falls over!! Just sayin...

[the ancient one]

At the current pricepoint for several perfectly good boxes that others have already developed, it it hard to justify making yet another other than a love of designing.

Nevertheless:


http://fencingbox.sourceforge.net/

[fatfencer]

I posted another thread on it. Give arduino a shot. its really useful and sure beats the hell out of fabricating your PCB or buying expensive components.

other than arduino it can all likely be found at allied elec.

[dognapper0]

Thanks I definitely want to make one. It would only cost around $50 to make one with the AVR stuff I have. It's even possible I can get my high school to pay for it. So really, I just want a project, which is what I said in my first few posts. Any insight for how I can build one would be awesome. I would like if anyone has any ideas for how to make one, such as how to set the program up, logically. I plan to use C or C++.

[brtech]

Early Christmas present, aka a free scoring machine!

This is old, so the timings are wrong, but should give you a good start.

[yba2cuo3]

Here is my implementation of Eric's S. GPL design. Decided to hard wire the whole thing to fit inside a Hammond 1455L1201 box (4.72"x4.06"x1.20"). The box mounts on a cheap $10 camera tripod for stability & uses super bright Luxeon star/O LED's. The code has been modified to support the latest timings, as suggested by previous posts.

Marc

[DangerMouse]

Wow, that's really a nice looking box. What was your final parts cost?

[yba2cuo3]

The total cost without the mini tripod is around $87 USD. The Luxeon LEDs are a bit expensive; i.e. ~$28 of the total. Smaller T-1 3/4 (5mm) high brightness LEDs can be used instead for under $5, but they don't cover as wide a viewing area/angle, unless one incorporates a seperate lens assembly/mount, etc. Probably not worth the extra hassle.

Marc

[touchefriend]

May I get a parts list from you?
touchefriend@yahoo.com

[yba2cuo3]

Here's an updated GPL Score box parts list, based on my implementation.

Parts can be purchased from Digikey or Mouser Electronics.

Marc