Club seeking coach in the Memphis area

[Missorleans990]

The Rhodes Fencing Club is looking for someone willing to impart their knowledge of the sport, for free. We are a "club sport", and therefore not entitled to all the benefits of the traditional team sports, and we can't get any money from the club allocations board to pay a coach. All we can offer is our gratitude and a community to fence with 3 times a week, or less, its up to you.
At this point we have about 15 people that regularly show up for practice, we fence foil and epee. We don't have any sabreurs, but we have a ton of sabre equipment and would like to learn.
If you're interested, or would like more info, email johhm@rhodes.edu

[MdA]

The Rhodes Fencing Club is looking for someone willing to impart their knowledge of the sport, for free.

Rhodes College should be embarrassed by this thread….and your staff advisor Joe Vari should also be embarrassed by your plea for help. I see he also does cricket and ultimate Frisbee.

http://www.rhodeslynx.com/sports/200...tab=clubsports

I have seen this over and over again at colleges across America. They have a storage room full of fencing gear and they open it up to the students and just “let them go at it”. Then the club members invite anybody in to teach for free.

Do they think that Obi-Wan Kenobi is just walking the streets of Memphis?

[oiuyt]

You get what you pay for....

That's far from universally true in fencing coaching. In both directions.

That said, the OP doesn't sound particularly appealing as a way to obtain a professional (attitude, if not pay scale) coach.

-B

[pjsise1]

If anything, the club should be willing to do fund raisers and collect dues in order to offer the coach something for his time.

A 25 person club could ask for $50 a semester each. (Yes, I know you have 15. Start recruiting.) Add to that $500 in fund raising and you'll have $3000 a year. If you have practices for 30 weeks across the year, that's $100 a week to offer a coach. It isn't much, but could be enough to make the difference between begging for volunteers and hiring someone who'd put in effort for his pay.

[Allen Evans]

The college should also keep in mind that advertisements like this are likely to attract any sort of "coach" who may or may not have the interests of the college at heart. Getting someone in the door to teach for free usually results in the credentials, honesty, or professionalism of the "coach" not being looked at too closely. This can be a disaster for the club.

[MdA]

…. Add to that $500 in fund raising and you'll have $3000 a year……

…. Getting someone in the door to teach for free usually results in the credentials, honesty, or professionalism of the "coach" not being looked at too closely. This can be a disaster for the club.

Good points Paul and Allen,

Another idea is to stipulate that part of the $3000 a year will be spent on continuing education for the coach. Perhaps there is no money in rec sports for salaries but there might be money for training. You could send your coach to a USFCA Clinic or Coaches College….and maybe include your club President. You might even ask the USFCA for a scholarship for your coach if Rhodes College has no funds. At least you could have some assurance that you are attracting a person who is interested in professional development.

Don’t get me wrong. These college club programs can be great proving grounds for talented young coaches…as Brad points out…but your rec sports department has got to help you put the right incentives in place for a quality program.

[Missorleans990]

Maybe I'm posting in the wrong section, no one expects a professional coach for no money. Our adviser has been extremely helpful and the college very generous in providing money to repair club equipment. I guess what we're really looking for is a community member with more experience than the rest of us. We can't charge club dues, and our recruitment at the beginning of the semester only yielded 15 beginners who regularly show up to practice. We've asked around at the few tournaments in the memphis area, to no avail, this post was a just a hail mary to see if there was someone we missed. Maybe our most experienced members can get to a coaches clinic or some other class one of these days.

[oiuyt]

We can't charge club dues

Why?

Looking at the Rhodes College "Club Sports Handbook", it explicitly mentions how dues should be set. Not to mention a variety of other mechanisms for fund-raising.

pjsise: The Handbook also specifies that coaches are volunteers. There are a number of colleges which have such a requirement for club sports (including Temple). MdA's suggestion to provide compensation through non-financial means likely fits within the club sports regulations at Rhodes. Paying for training opportunities also has the benefit of increasing the knowledge and level of the coach.

-B

[pjsise1]

Thanks for the info Brad. I'll agree that if direct compensation can't be made to the coach for his work then paying for training is a good option.


I'd also suggest that the club could also see to it that the volunteer coach need not use any of his own money to do his job. The club could purchase coaching equipment that it could own but the coach could use. If the coach snaps a blade the club should replace it. The club might also be able to pay for (or reimburse) any travel expenses associated with competitions.

[milstdfarm]

Hi MissOrleans,

Most of the people in this coaching section are professionals and come to fencing with a much more serious attitude about it.

I fenced at Mizzou in the late 70's / early 80's. We didn't have a paid coach either. We had a grad student who knew more than we did and he taught us what he could. We wanted to win and we trained hard but we understood we were not going to the Olympics. Still we had fun and learned about fencing and got to go on some road-trips.

I think if you keep getting the word out you can find someone who knows more than you guys and who is willing to coach just because it's fun. I coach a Scout team near St. Louis. I'm no real coach but our kids have fun with fencing and I have fun trying to coach.

Good luck and keep trying.

[MdA]

Maybe I'm posting in the wrong section.....

You're not posting in the wrong forum. There are a lot of ways to tackle this issue as you can see...

You have some positive things going for you.

You have a facility

You have equipment

You have 15 fencers

And Memphis is not a bad location

Here is a another thread on the college club coaching topic

Stimulating Competition

[rcmatthews]

I'm sorry to see that your looking for a coach. I guess Mr. Kroeker has moved on? Or looking for something more?

First of all, Memphis is a pretty terrible location as far as fencing goes. I fenced at the University of Mississippi, and our two clubs are pretty much the only thing within 300 miles. I would suggest that you get in contact with the Ole Miss fencing club. John Matthews is the faculty advisor and has fenced probably for 40 years. He's pretty good at leading group classes, generally a great guy, and has a dedicated facility off campus. Walter Flaschka is also in Oxford. He fenced for Steve Mormando at NYU, and is good for individual lessons. Pretty much foil and epee, but Walter secretly enjoys fencing sabre as well. If your willing to caravan down to Oxford once or twice a week, I'm sure they would be willing to work with you. It only takes a little over an hour. I can PM you emails if you want.

To the others who have posted:
In my experience, the budget for club sports is usually determined by some kind of student committee, usually made up of about 3 or 4 people, the presidents of their respective clubs. These people generally divide up the available money among themselves, leaving little for the others. Fortunately at Ole Miss, we had a seat on the board, and got about 3000 every year.

Recruiting new members that stay, for Rhodes I imagine, would be a colossally hard challenge. I think they have about, what, 2000-3000 students. I know it was very difficult for my college club, and we had a potential base about 5 times as large. I think it necessary to charge the dues though, because it makes the fencers value the club more, and they keep attending so that they get value for their money.

Anyway, keep up the good fight.

[catwood1]

Recruiting new members that stay, for Rhodes I imagine, would be a colossally hard challenge. I think they have about, what, 2000-3000 students. I know it was very difficult for my college club, and we had a potential base about 5 times as large.

For reference, my high school had 1600 people and about 60 on the fencing team.

[larkascending]

If my math is right, this is how my club pays for lessons without much support from the college:
Members: ~25 (we field a 4-person squad in all weapons except WF, and we have extras in WE and possibly MS or WS.)
Dues: $180/person/year ($60 fall quarter, $90 winter quarter when we have most of our tournaments, $30 spring quarter)
Annual income: $4500, not including additional fundraisers
Lesson slots per week: 10
Weeks per year: 30, but extrapolating from this quarter we'll have about 24 weeks with lessons
Total cost for one half-hour lesson: $25
Club subsidy per lesson: $10
Cost to student per lesson: $15
Total club expenditure on lessons: $2400
The remainder, ~$2100 plus the profits of fundraising (this will probably be extensive), goes towards replenishing team equipment, collegiate tournament fees ($1900 for next quarter), and travel costs. Fencers pay for their own personal gear and food at tournaments.

For the cost of dues, fencers get:
Subsidized private lessons, as described above
Free use of fencing equipment
Use of whites, with $20 deposit refunded upon return of whites at the end of the year
Conditioning led by the squad captains 4 hours/wk
Fencing 6 hours/wk, either free bouting or drills led by weapon captains
Free travel to, lodging at, and entry fees for collegiate tournaments attended by the team
Armoring (by whomever is elected armorer) and whites repair (by whomever is appointed whitesmaster/mistress)

Fighting over lesson slots is not usually a problem: enough people are not interested that I can get two when I have the money and our team captain sometimes is even forced to take extra lessons so that all of the slots are filled. Our coach drives to our campus twice a week to give lessons in the afternoon. The subsidization is great: it allows us to have lessons with a world-class coach who would normally be financially and physically (on the other side of the city) out of our reach. The fact that lessons are not completely paid for helps keep people accountable for showing up to their lessons on time and working hard. People who are more on the recreational end of the spectrum are not unduly burdened by the cost of dues, while somebody who is really motivated to improve can actually get more from the club in subsidization than they are paying in dues.

A smaller club that doesn't compete frequently or over a large geographical area could probably make do with half as many lessons per week and thus charging half our dues. It might be hard to convince a coach to give lessons for free, but somebody who lives in driving distance might be persuaded if you can promise them one afternoon a week where every second of their time is paid for.

[Edit: Now I also see that you need a volunteer coach, which I had missed before. In that case, subsidization is probably not an option, but you could still try to attract a coach who would make the drive if you can get people to commit to a set of time slots once a week when you all will get lessons. That way, each individual who gets lessons can consider this person their private coach and gets all the benefits of lessons, but you won't be paying a coach with team money.]

I was surprised at how few club sports you have (I counted on our website, and we have over 35 recognized athletic organizations) but then I saw that your incoming class is a little under a third the size of ours. Given that, fifteen people is a great start, and you will still have potential to grow if you can hook freshmen next year before they get set in their ways and stop wanting to try new activities. It makes sense that you can't charge dues when you are not an officially recognized club sport - what would it take for you to change that? Fencing is not a cheap sport and equipment breaks, so it is unrealistic to suppose that you will be able to develop a sustainable club without some sort of income.

[rcmatthews]

For reference, my high school had 1600 people and about 60 on the fencing team.

yeah, but i'd be surprised if your high school was in a fencing wasteland comparable to memphis.

[Missorleans990]

Going down to Ole Miss is a great idea, thank you.
We considered that last year but never acted on it, I'll have to remind everyone that this is an option at the next practice and we'll see if we cant manage that this year.

[jjefferies]

Puzzlement, if memory serves, Southwestern, er I mean Rhodes offered fencing back in the 60's and 70's? Was that also done by volunteers? What about Memphis State, er whatever they're calling it today, TIger Hi? Don't they offer a couple of courses in fencing? Thought I'd heard something to that effect.

Must be a Memphis thing to change names and erase history, kinda like "Whiskey Chute" or was that November 6th? and General Washburn's Escape alley.