Blackbox Voting contesting ES&S acquisition of Diebold voting systems

[jessicasimpson]

I'm (only slightly) interested in learning why BB thinks that poor citizens should be denied the right to vote. The idea strikes me as deeply un-American.

well Buchanan see's it as Rep without taxation, I think he got the idea from his Whites Only buddies in South Africa. He requested to be South Africa's ambassador several times durring Apartheid

[lindajdunn]

Voter ID's for one. You have to have an ID and proof of citizenship to get into town hall meetings but not to vote.

Indiana has voter ID. I worked at the polls during the last election and checked IDs. No one without an ID voted.

I voted absentee ballot and had to present a valid, government-issued ID.

The state BMV will issue non-driving license IDs for those who do not drive but need an ID and the requirements are the same as they are for those obtaining driving licenses (minus the drivers exam).

[erik_blank]

Indiana has voter ID. I worked at the polls during the last election and checked IDs. No one without an ID voted.

I voted absentee ballot and had to present a valid, government-issued ID.

The state BMV will issue non-driving license IDs for those who do not drive but need an ID and the requirements are the same as they are for those obtaining driving licenses (minus the drivers exam).

Of course the necessity of a 'valid' state ID to vote will help with BB's wish to keep the poor from voting. After all, which is more important: paying the rent, fixing the broken down car and feeding the kids or going down to the DL center, wasting a days pay while waiting in line and then coughing up more $$$ to process your request to be acknowledged as a human being?

[Bayou Bum]

Funny... the current concern over the Diebold acquisition is coming less than a year after a US Presidential election that liberals are for the most part quite pleased about. Care to try again?

Yes, please explain that? Are you afraid that the republicans will steal the next election? There was a lot of talk about right wing conspiracy with Bush and up till the election of 2008 when Obama won, everyone got quiet. Kind of hard to say the republicans rigged the ballot boxes on that one!

[Bayou Bum]

Care to clarify that, BB?

On the one hand you seem to be stating that we should be more involved in policing elections in other countries, but at the same time you seem to be ridiculing Jimmy Carter who is virtually the only person from the U.S. who is actually involved in policing elections in other countries.

I never said that we should be policing elections in other countries. For God's sake, please think before you write this stuff. Jimmy Carter is a joke, even Obama knows that. If there is policing to be done, it should be through the UN.

What I am really talking about is that election fraud is nothing new but whereas conservatives don't want any election fraud, liberals only make it an issue if their candidate loses.

[Bayou Bum]

Of course the necessity of a 'valid' state ID to vote will help with BB's wish to keep the poor from voting. After all, which is more important: paying the rent, fixing the broken down car and feeding the kids or going down to the DL center, wasting a days pay while waiting in line and then coughing up more $$$ to process your request to be acknowledged as a human being?

Oh, the old disenfranchised voter argument. Surely you can do better than that? What is wrong with giving everyone a free voter ID card? If the poor cannot take time to get a voter id, then they don't have time to make an intelligent decision about candidates.

Ok smart guy, how do you think these same poor people are going to get their free health care without a government id card? If they don't need a government ID card to get health care, how do you know if they are illegal or not.

See, when faced with the facts, your liberal lies fall apart.

[jeff]

BB, there was a lot of suspicion because the head of Diebold was an Republican activist and fundraiser who had stated he was "committed to helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the president next year." (that's a quote) for Bush in the 2004 election.

That kind of comment should raise warning flags when the guy heads a company with insecure voting machines that don't provide an audit trail of votes. It would be just as inappropriate if the guy was a Democrat who wanted to deliver votes for Kerry. It's simply wrong.

In fencing we wouldn't want to have a referee officiating a bout after saying he was "committed to helping his preferred fencers win". It would be viewed as extremely inappropriate, and the ref should not take bouts involving his fencers. The same definitely applies here.

[Bayou Bum]

Indiana has voter ID. I worked at the polls during the last election and checked IDs. No one without an ID voted.

I voted absentee ballot and had to present a valid, government-issued ID.

The state BMV will issue non-driving license IDs for those who do not drive but need an ID and the requirements are the same as they are for those obtaining driving licenses (minus the drivers exam).

Good, so why shouldn't everyone?

[Bayou Bum]

BB, there was a lot of suspicion because the head of Diebold was an Republican activist and fundraiser who had stated he was "committed to helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the president next year." (that's a quote) for Bush in the 2004 election.

That kind of comment should raise warning flags when the guy heads a company with insecure voting machines that don't provide an audit trail of votes. It would be just as inappropriate if the guy was a Democrat who wanted to deliver votes for Kerry. It's simply wrong.

In fencing we wouldn't want to have a referee officiating a bout after saying he was "committed to helping his preferred fencers win". It would be viewed as extremely inappropriate, and the ref should not take bouts involving his fencers. The same definitely applies here.

So, why do you not show the same suspicion regarding ACORN? Never mind, we all know, because they were committed to helping Obama.

[erik_blank]

If there is policing to be done, it should be through the UN.

What I am really talking about is that election fraud is nothing new but whereas conservatives don't want any election fraud, liberals only make it an issue if their candidate loses.

I find it interesting that such an avowed conservative is espousing the glories of the U.N. Way to go BB! Most conservatives that I know usually declare that the U.N. is nothing more than an attempt of one secret organization or another to subvert the U.S. and turn us into a Communist/Socialist/Theological state under the hobnail boots of the 'others.' (They also then usually start to rant about the various fleets of black helicopters waiting in fields, clearings and 'abandoned' air fields just waiting on the signal from their U.N. overlords...)

As for what most of the talking heads at Fox News and the GOP decry the most is what is called "Voter Fraud" where one or more people fraudulently attempt to either vote multiple times as themselves or to impersonate someone else in an effor to vote in their place.

What Black Box Voting is most concerned with is actually ELECTION fraud, where one interested party attempts to change the results of an election either by vote tampering after the fact, ballot box stuffing or (in this case) through electronic fraud.

If you will notice on their web site, BBV has maintained their stance against electronic voting machines and their irregularities throughout every election since they were first formed.

[Bayou Bum]

I find it interesting that such an avowed conservative is espousing the glories of the U.N. Way to go BB! Most conservatives that I know usually declare that the U.N. is nothing more than an attempt of one secret organization or another to subvert the U.S. and turn us into a Communist/Socialist/Theological state under the hobnail boots of the 'others.' (They also then usually start to rant about the various fleets of black helicopters waiting in fields, clearings and 'abandoned' air fields just waiting on the signal from their U.N. overlords...)

As for what most of the talking heads at Fox News and the GOP decry the most is what is called "Voter Fraud" where one or more people fraudulently attempt to either vote multiple times as themselves or to impersonate someone else in an effor to vote in their place.

What Black Box Voting is most concerned with is actually ELECTION fraud, where one interested party attempts to change the results of an election either by vote tampering after the fact, ballot box stuffing or (in this case) through electronic fraud.

If you will notice on their web site, BBV has maintained their stance against electronic voting machines and their irregularities throughout every election since they were first formed.

So no concern over places in the US where there were more votes cast than total registered voters? I guess not since you only seemed concerned with electronic fraud, which I understand is beyond the mental capability of most liberal voters.

[erik_blank]

So, why do you not show the same suspicion regarding ACORN? Never mind, we all know, because they were committed to helping Obama.

No, because ACORN did not have the ability to directly influence the programming of these "Black Box" voting systems, many of which did not even have so much as a 'receipt' of how the votes were cast...

Acorn on the other hand, while they were able to register large number of new voters had no ability to actually get these people to show up at the polls, nor could they force the voters who DID show to vote how they may or may not have wanted the voter to vote.

[erik_blank]

So no concern over places in the US where there were more votes cast than total registered voters? I guess not since you only seemed concerned with electronic fraud, which I understand is beyond the mental capability of most liberal voters.

Yet the places where these reports were made were also places where the voting systems had no paper trail, used systems that were easily hacked, and usually had very poor chain of custody systems to keep account of the electronic results. If I remember correctly these locations also had a very strong Republican turn out in their results. Hence, yes, I am concerned with electronic fraud, since this is where the greatest election fraud seems to be coming from these days. I am ALSO concerned with election fraud in other forms, it is just so much easier to do in electronic format these days that it doesn't pay to do it through the old fashioned paper ballot box stuffing.

Oh, and thanks for reminding me WHY I am proud to wear the badge of a liberal... When presented with facts, I am able to judge their worth and in the event that they contradict a BELIEF system that I earlier held to be true, I am able to CHANGE my beliefs to fit the facts at hand....

Seems that most conservatives instead have the habit of maintaining their beliefs DESPITE being presented with evidence to the contrary....

Good luck with that....

[Hauptman]

I never said that we should be policing elections in other countries. For God's sake, please think before you write this stuff. Jimmy Carter is a joke, even Obama knows that. If there is policing to be done, it should be through the UN.

What I am really talking about is that election fraud is nothing new but whereas conservatives don't want any election fraud, liberals only make it an issue if their candidate loses.

Ok, thanks for clarifying; that's why I asked.

The rest is just your fantasy, of course. Yeah, yeah... liberals are all lazy and evil, and conservatives are all godly and pure..... blah, blah, blah.....

If you actually believe it, you're crazy. If you don't really believe it, you'll just say anything, no matter how sickening, to justify your own purposes. <yawn>

[jessicasimpson]

Oh, the old disenfranchised voter argument. Surely you can do better than that? What is wrong with giving everyone a free voter ID card? If the poor cannot take time to get a voter id, then they don't have time to make an intelligent decision about candidates.

Ok smart guy, how do you think these same poor people are going to get their free health care without a government id card? If they don't need a government ID card to get health care, how do you know if they are illegal or not.

See, when faced with the facts, your liberal lies fall apart.

This entire post is pure opinion and speculation.
100% fact free
I agree his argument is very thin, but I see no facts at all from you
and what in his post was a lie?
Is there some conservative one liner search engine you've found?

[noodle]

ridiculous how quickly this turned from an actual discussion about voting machines into a partisan hackfest.

[I_luv_saber]

Kind of a reflection of current attitudes in America...

[Bayou Bum]

ridiculous how quickly this turned from an actual discussion about voting machines into a partisan hackfest.

How does government control of voting machines change anything? What is to keep a party in power, be it republican or democrat, from controlling the machines to remain in power?

[Gav]

ridiculous how quickly this turned from an actual discussion about voting machines into a partisan hackfest.

Got to agree.

I am not an american but I find it somewhat depressing seeing you guys reduced to throwing mud when the actual issue is one of competence and reliability.

Really your personal politics shouldn't factor into this.

Come on guys we expect better of you!

[erik_blank]

How does government control of voting machines change anything? What is to keep a party in power, be it republican or democrat, from controlling the machines to remain in power?

While I AM concerned about Govt controll of voting systems, I am more concerned about the ability to concentrate power in the hands of a few, and especially in the hands of private individuals with fewer checks and balances. It is the EASE of abuse and the ease of coivering their tracks.
At one time I was a strong advocate of electronic voting. I was a pie in the sky advocate thinking that by electronic tallying the system was impervious to cheating. No more. After seeing the results I want to go back to paper.
I also wonder about the older (now illegal) practice of giving people receipts of exactly how they voted. Apparently this was outlawed because people were getting paid to prove that they had voted one way or another. I wonder how this works with these 'reciepts' from the electronic systems.