Leon Paul X-Change Fails after only 18 months?

[InFerrumVeritas]

In spring 2008, my Triplette mask failed, so I purchased a mask that, I was under the impression, would be more durable. I searched and found what had been described as the "best on the market." I bought the Leon Paul X-Change mask.

I loved this mask, and I took care of it. I'd wash the lining every time I washed my gear, and the bib about once a month. I was fencing 2-4 days a week, depending on classes, work, etc. I'd go to a tournament almost every weekend.

This weekend, Sept. 25, 2009, I got my mask punch tested at an event and it failed. Initially, my thoughts were "She did it wrong!" so I grabbed the mask before it could be visually marked and requested the bout committee and the most experienced armorer in the room to have a look at it. My mask was the only one to fail, and all equipment was inspected (it was the division's punch tester). My mask had failed.

I am disappointed that a mask so expensive was of this poor of quality. I had come to trust Leon Paul's equipment, but now I find it suspect.

[yearsofwisdom]

yup. thats what you get for choosing leon paul... fail..

[wahrman]

Hmmm, I find that hard to believe...I do know for a fact that there are some people in your division who are a little over zealous with the punch.

But I'll take your word that it was done correctly. However, you could have sent a note to the Paul guys first before posting here though.

[Nolano]

yup. thats what you get for choosing leon paul... fail..

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about if you're implying that this is indicative of Leon Paul's quality.


And to the OP, talk to Leon Paul.

[LeonPaulUSA]

I have to say that I very rarely get complaints about this mask and a number of athletes attending the upcoming World Championships in Turkey will be wearing versions of this mask. I know it to be a quality product with a good reputation.

If you are willing, please send this mask to me at Leon Paul USA so that I can better understand why it failed and take corrective action. Hopefully I will be able to restore your confidence in Leon Paul. I will reimburse your shipping cost.

Please do not use the failed mask again, not even for practice.

Bill Murphy
Leon Paul USA
http://www.leonpaulusa.com/fencing/home/contact.htm

[InFerrumVeritas]

I have to say that I very rarely get complaints about this mask and a number of athletes attending the upcoming World Championships in Turkey will be wearing versions of this mask. I know it to be a quality product with a good reputation.

If you are willing, please send this mask to me at Leon Paul USA so that I can better understand why it failed and take corrective action. Hopefully I will be able to restore your confidence in Leon Paul. I will reimburse your shipping cost.

Please do not use the failed mask again, not even for practice.

Bill Murphy
Leon Paul USA
http://www.leonpaulusa.com/fencing/home/contact.htm

I will do so. I loved, if nothing else, the comfort of the mask, and may have just gotten a bad mask. I'd have no problem sending it, and luckily kept it from being destroyed (to render visibly unusable, I removed the bib and that seemed to satisfy everyone). I wouldn't dream of using a failed mask in practice, as I sort of like my face.

[yearsofwisdom]

Nolano thats my opinion and several years before the national team refused to wear LP gear because of its quality. not saying its bad, its just somee ppl dont like it... nothign against LP since i like their body cords

[keropie]

I have to say that I very rarely get complaints about this mask and a number of athletes attending the upcoming World Championships in Turkey will be wearing versions of this mask. I know it to be a quality product with a good reputation.

If you are willing, please send this mask to me at Leon Paul USA so that I can better understand why it failed and take corrective action. Hopefully I will be able to restore your confidence in Leon Paul. I will reimburse your shipping cost.

Please do not use the failed mask again, not even for practice.

Bill Murphy
Leon Paul USA
http://www.leonpaulusa.com/fencing/home/contact.htm

The only LP equipment I've ever owned are a few grips, but from everything I've seen/heard/experienced, THIS is indicative of their customer service. No one has 100% quality control, and any piece of equipment can fail, but a company that will stand behind their product at this level is a company to respect.

[CvilleFencer]

Nolano thats my opinion and several years before the national team refused to wear LP gear because of its quality. not saying its bad, its just somee ppl dont like it... nothign against LP since i like their body cords

Really, the whole national team eh? Refused to wear LP because of quality? Couple years ago? Funny how I missed that...

My opinion, as a coach and a fencer, is that LP makes the best masks on the market and some of the best uniforms and lames as well. I run a club and 5 school programs. I have used about everything out there. LP masks and kit are what I recommend to all my fencers as top shelf gear and is what I sell in my clubs pro shop as top shelf kit. Since I could use/sell anything on the market and probably make more money by selling other brands, that tends to indicate my level of satisfaction with their gear.

As with all things YMMV, but even if there is a defect with their gear, LP is top notch in making it right if you contact them about it.

[yearsofwisdom]

and i think tahts most important. i rather get a crappy malfunctioned gear taht can be replaced with ease from the manufacture than something that can't be. and yes there was an incident with that...

[Nolano]

So, first you imply that it's bad quality, then you say that that's what you believe but it's your opinion, then you say that you're not saying it's bad..... So have you ever owned any of their stuff aside from body cords? It doesn't seem likely.

I have almost entirely LP equipment, I only once had an issue, and it was dealt with promptly.

If such an incident actually occured with the national team, you seem to be the only one who knows about it.

[Rockstar44]

I am disappointed that a mask so expensive was of this poor of quality. I had come to trust Leon Paul's equipment, but now I find it suspect.

Leon Paul makes the best masks out there. As an armorer, I always recommend LP when anyone asks about masks. It's always possible that something could slip through and every once in a while someone can make a mistake, but LP always stands behind their products and I am sure that they will take care of you fairly.

Everyone in my family uses LP masks and I wouldn't allow them to use anything else.

Give Bill a chance and he will take care of you.

[Rockstar44]

This weekend, Sept. 25, 2009, I got my mask punch tested at an event and it failed.

Was there a particular reason that this mask was punch tested, or were they simply punching them all?

[LordShout]

It is policy in the Michigan Division to punch test all masks used at competition. Where exactly do you fence that they don't do this?

[yearsofwisdom]

or mayb nolano you dont kno about it? and i could be mistaken but i kno it involved a team refusing to wear the stuff. and i have my own preferences and you have your own. i think their quality is bad, you don't.

[wahrman]

There are several threads on this topic here with several differing opinions
but other than national and sectional tournaments, I've never had my mask
checked in the Bay Area, Western Washington, Ontario, Alberta, England
or Wales.

I have however watched several people improperly use a punch in Michigan.
I also watched someone ruin a perfectly good mask with this abuse.

</drift>

It is policy in the Michigan Division to punch test all masks used at competition. Where exactly do you fence that they don't do this?

[fencerbill]

I would like to hear a description of what and where the defect was. What weapon(s) was it used with? I have seen masks from many manufacturers which had defects and I have seen examples of many kinds of defects. Was it a broken wire? Was it a displaced wire?

If a mask has a displaced wire, then it is likely that conscientious armorers may always test the mask at that place. At a competition every weekend over a year and a half, if you test almost any mask in the identical place 50 to 75 times, perhaps it is not surprising that it may fail a punch test. I am also curious as to which kinds of mask punches were used and the state of wear of the mask punch used. I have seen worn mask punches that would penetrate an otherwise good mask where a new condition mask punch would have indicated it was a good mask. If the same mask punch has been used for all the masks at all the competitions in the Michigan Division, it certainly could have accumulated a lot of wear. Mask punches do wear out. That is why equipment vendors have replacement mask punch mandrels for sale.

I would be interested in Bill Murphy's opinion of what happened.

Statistics don't apply to individuals. If the best manufacturer makes enough masks, eventually one may come along that is not as good as the others. We have seen anecdotes here on fencing.net where Leon Paul has stood behind the quality of the equipment it sells. Let's see what they do here.

[LordShout]

Well I got owned. I didn't realize that this was not universal, in the interest of not turning this into n+1 thread on an old topic please ignore my above post.

The punch is bronze colored, not sure of the manufacturer. Fairly old, well worn but I have no knowledge if the mandrel has been replaced or not. It is not used for all competitions in Michigan but I would guess that its used for 1/4 or more of the comp's for at least some of the masks. I was taken the LSAT in the morning and missed foil/check in so I didn't get to see the mask but can ask the tester tomorrow if you have other questions. Ben Schleis at UFO would know more about the punch itself.

[Nolano]

or mayb nolano you dont kno about it? and i could be mistaken but i kno it involved a team refusing to wear the stuff. and i have my own preferences and you have your own. i think their quality is bad, you don't.

I'm not the only one who said I hadn't heard of it. Cvillefencer has been fencing and coaching for far, far longer than either of us. Regardless of what the national team may or may not have done in the past, at least half wear Leon Paul now.

And I'm not talking about preferences. I'm talking about experiences. I have experience with a good amount of their equipment, and I think very highly of it. I'm simply trying to find out why you think it's so bad. I asked if you'd ever owned it, not if it was your opinion that it's bad.

[yearsofwisdom]

well some things like this are better kept secrets... and yes i have. I did not like it and returned it and got allstar instead.