Fencing improvement

[sabrefencer93]

I was just wondering, how far along should i be with my fencing training and skills for sabre if i have only been fencing for about two months.

[Coldfire]

I don't really see how anyone can answer this question, especially if there isn't any standard for how far fencers in general should be after two months. How far relative to what? The Olympics, top 8 at a NAC, an E?

The short answer is you shouldn't be very far. I've been fencing for 5 years now and still have a long ways to go. You never stop learning.

[MyrddinsPrecint]

Originally Posted by sabrefencer93

I was just wondering, how far along should i be with my fencing training and skills for sabre if i have only been fencing for about two months.

Can you put on all your gear by yourself?

Can you identify a sabre at 20 feet?

Can you describe to someone else how moving forward and backward is supposed to work (even if you can't always do it right or for long enough)?

Are you having fun?

If you can answer "yes" to most of them, you're doing fine.

More than that will be dependent on who you're learning from, how often you have class/lesson/practice, how old you are, how athletic you were before....

[chase]

Get a private coach (preferably one with Olympic experience) and fence as much as you can (at least 3 times a week). Don't waste your time with foil or epee (any good coach will tell you that.)

[catwood1]

Originally Posted by chase

Get a private coach (preferably one with Olympic experience) and fence as much as you can (at least 3 times a week). Don't waste your time with foil or epee (any good coach will tell you that.)

Yea, any good coach has fenced in the olympics.


Note: You're new around here, so I should clarify that I'm being very sarcastic. Competitive success of a coach is sometimes good, but not always. There are good coaches that were bad fencers; there are bad coaches that were good fencers, etc.

[Inquartata]

It's possible that "Olympic experience" could encompass fencing and/or coaching at the Olympics. ( Maybe even refereeing, too! )

[sabrefencer93]

Originally Posted by chase

Get a private coach (preferably one with Olympic experience) and fence as much as you can (at least 3 times a week). Don't waste your time with foil or epee (any good coach will tell you that.)

I can't afford private lessons, but hopefully i can help my coach out with the after school program and he said he would give me private lessons in return for my help. My coach has about 30 years experience, and the guy i normally work with has about 9 months experience, but has already studied under maestro Ramon Martinez and fences about 2 hours a day at least. I fence 3-4 times i week, two hours each.

[Craig]

Originally Posted by sabrefencer93

I can't afford private lessons, but hopefully i can help my coach out with the after school program and he said he would give me private lessons in return for my help. My coach has about 30 years experience, and the guy i normally work with has about 9 months experience, but has already studied under maestro Ramon Martinez and fences about 2 hours a day at least. I fence 3-4 times i week, two hours each.

Martinez's specialization is in classical fencing, a bit far removed from the current sport of fencing - especially sabre.

You mention your fencing specific training, but you should also be working out a base for your physical training. Look at some of Tim Morehouse's early posts to his blog where he shows some of the physical training activities he is doing.

Craig

[Allen Evans]

...and stop looking for external validation from perfect strangers.

[Gav]

Not knowing you personally I can only give you a guesstimate based upon my own experience.

In terms of improvement 2 months is nothing. A good rule of thumbs is: 6 months to be able to do the basics, 2 years to be competent. By competent I mean being able to move and execute various moves in a consistent manner. You can short circuit this by putting in a lot of work and having access to good coaching AND good opposition.

What you need to do is decide what your goals will be. That will help decide the metrics you will use to figure out if you have achieved them.

I would say that after 2 months you should be seeing improvement and now where you are going. Unless you are very focused worrying about your development at this stage seems a little premature.

Originally Posted by sabrefencer93

I can't afford private lessons, but hopefully i can help my coach out with the after school program and he said he would give me private lessons in return for my help. My coach has about 30 years experience, and the guy i normally work with has about 9 months experience, but has already studied under maestro Ramon Martinez and fences about 2 hours a day at least. I fence 3-4 times i week, two hours each.

As Craig says Martinez is a classical coach. Someone trained by him will carry that through to your training sessions. 9 months is nothing in the great scheme of coaching. The classical style doesn't have much utility in the modern game. I await the flames from certain quarters with a sense of wearied inevitability...

As for your coaching staff:

My instinct tells me that you should be sitting down and discussing this with the coach with 30years experience. I assume he and his assistant have a good relationship and it's entirely possible that they can draw you up a plan once you've discussed this with them.

2 hrs a day is good for him but what does that give you? And what do you mean by days? 7 days? 5 days? It doesn't really tell us anything about his coaching prowess anyway (he could be really good but equally really bad... I just don't know).

Private lessons would help a lot. You will get better faster but if you can't afford it then make the best use of the resources available to you. I know a couple of fencers who have progressed to the 'good' stage with very little input from outsiders. These people are all characterised by their determination, intelligence and discipline.

[Gav]

Originally Posted by Allen Evans

...and stop looking for external validation from perfect strangers.

Yep.

QFT

[sabrefencer93]

Originally Posted by Craig

Martinez's specialization is in classical fencing, a bit far removed from the current sport of fencing - especially sabre.

You mention your fencing specific training, but you should also be working out a base for your physical training. Look at some of Tim Morehouse's early posts to his blog where he shows some of the physical training activities he is doing.

Craig

I know maritnez's specialization is classical fencing, but my partner takes his fencing extremly seriously. Both classical and sport. I do a lot of physical training such as biking 15 miles a day and lifting weights.

[jeff]

sabrefencer93, physical condition is important, but your progress is going to depend on skill development. That takes time no matter how hard you try. Two months is almost nothing. Your partner's nine months is nothing for someone who is trying to coach. It's great that you're enthusiastic and want to progress, but you should have more realistic expectations that this is going to take time.

Doing a lot of fencing at such an early stage could actually harm your development, since you'll probably build bad habits that will be hard to break. I'm surprised that classically-oriented instructor would even let you fence at all after only 2 months. Normally, the classical types hold back fencing until after a long period of lessons and drills.

Most of the advice people gave you is really good. I suggest you discuss with the experienced coach and put together a realistic program (which also will include whether or not you want to go down the classical fencing road). And don't depend on strangers for validation!

[Inquartata]

Originally Posted by Allen Evans

...and stop looking for external validation from perfect strangers.

But...nobody's perfect.

[Allen Evans]

Perfect, no.

Perfectly strange....well, I can think of a few examples on this Board.

[Inquartata]

I resemble that remark.

[sabrefencer93]

Originally Posted by jeff

sabrefencer93, physical condition is important, but your progress is going to depend on skill development. That takes time no matter how hard you try. Two months is almost nothing. Your partner's nine months is nothing for someone who is trying to coach. It's great that you're enthusiastic and want to progress, but you should have more realistic expectations that this is going to take time.

Doing a lot of fencing at such an early stage could actually harm your development, since you'll probably build bad habits that will be hard to break. I'm surprised that classically-oriented instructor would even let you fence at all after only 2 months. Normally, the classical types hold back fencing until after a long period of lessons and drills.

Most of the advice people gave you is really good. I suggest you discuss with the experienced coach and put together a realistic program (which also will include whether or not you want to go down the classical fencing road). And don't depend on strangers for validation!

Thank you for your advice. I have developed reasonable expectations for myself. My partner is the one who pushes me to do so much fencing. I do about an hour of footwork a day and so far am developing pretty good form. I have many mistakes i keep on making, but i take it slow and do many drills to correct them, it probably doesn't help that the person i am always fencing is left handed and it makes chest cuts and belly cuts a little more difficult to practice.