09-21-2009, 06:13 PM
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#1 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 445
| Advantage/disadvantage of a bent tang for an angle?
I realized that my new foil felt very flat in my hand and i think it would help my lateral blade work such as parries if i bent the tang down so i hold the foil at an angle. i use a belgian. are there disadvantages or advantages in this, bending the tang for a better angle... i don't really care about your grip comments  | 
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09-21-2009, 06:19 PM
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#2 | | Le Picador
Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 3,247
| Bending your blade will point it down towards your keyboard and thus make it a lot easier to use it to type "cant" into the search box.
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09-21-2009, 06:19 PM
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#3 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,150
| Quote:
Originally Posted by yearsofwisdom  I realized that my new foil felt very flat in my hand and i think it would help my lateral blade work such as parries if i bent the tang down so i hold the foil at an angle. i use a belgian. are there disadvantages or advantages in this, bending the tang for a better angle... i don't really care about your grip comments | some choices;
Whatever your coach says.
Set the blade so with your natural hand/wrist position the point will hit target on arm extension. If you are using your fingers/wrist to keep the point on target you have insufficient cant (or to much).
The majority opinion.
The minority opinion.
The most plausible bit of nonsense you read here.
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09-21-2009, 06:32 PM
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#4 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Northern England
Posts: 424
| What's bent for one person is normal for another...  | |
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09-21-2009, 06:40 PM
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#5 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 6,604
| Enter Inq in 5... 4... 3... 2...
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lol wut?
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09-22-2009, 12:41 AM
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#6 | | Senior Member
Join Date: May 2003 Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 5,397
| Disadvantages: If you don't know how to do it, or it's a brittle blade, you might break it.
It's hard to get each blade set the same exact way, so your blades will be more similar if you set none of them.
If you borrow a blade from someone else, it will be set somewhat differently than yours--- but this is somewhat likely to be true no matter what, so... mostly a moot point.
........... Have we ever tried to determine if there's a positive or negative correlation between wrist/elbow problems and blade canting? | 
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09-22-2009, 04:20 AM
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#7 | | Curmudgeon Emeritus
Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Somewhere in your nightmares!
Posts: 27,354
| Quote:
Originally Posted by telkanuru Enter Inq in 5... 4... 3... 2... | No one is going to enter Inq! Inq straight! 
Oh, wait, you meant--- 
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09-22-2009, 08:06 AM
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#8 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Staying in DC; pining for Texas
Posts: 1,883
| Quote:
Originally Posted by MyrddinsPrecint It's hard to get each blade set the same exact way, so your blades will be more similar if you set none of them. | Not necessarily so, Grasshopper! PM for details! | |
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09-22-2009, 09:37 AM
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#9 | | Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Scotland
Posts: 5,522
| Quote:
Originally Posted by MyrddinsPrecint
........... Have we ever tried to determine if there's a positive or negative correlation between wrist/elbow problems and blade canting?
| Not you and I ... but I would suggest that the fact that so many top people personally set their weapons renders the answer "yes". | |
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09-22-2009, 09:39 AM
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#10 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 187
| Put your blade in a vise with the tang sticking up. Use a piece of pipe (1/2" diameter or smaller if you can find it) to bend the tang. If you're right handed, bend it to the left and down. If you're left handed, bend it right and down. A proper cant to the tang will enable you to hold the weapon in a more natural position. Holding the weapon in en guarde position your wrist should not be bent. | |
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09-22-2009, 10:38 AM
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#11 | | Senior Member
Join Date: May 2003 Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 5,397
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Inquartata No one is going to enter Inq! Inq straight!
Oh, wait, you meant--- | Have you never heard of pegging? (don't google that if you're in a public place, under 18, or wouldn't want to know the kind of thing under 18s shouldn't be googling in a public place.) Quote:
Originally Posted by Mergs Not necessarily so, Grasshopper! PM for details! | I have a blade that just refuses to be set exactly right. I have stopped for fear that it will break, not because I don't know where I want it. (and yes, the whole thing has been attempted by someone much better at these things than me with heavy equipment available to him and he came to the same conclusion.)
Which is to say, yes, there are solutions by which you can get much closer to uniformity in canted blades, but sometimes life happens. Quote:
Originally Posted by Gav Not you and I ... but I would suggest that the fact that so many top people personally set their weapons renders the answer "yes". | I would suggest that the people near the top are usually the people who have bodies that are more resistant to injury in general. I wonder about the group of us who aren't put together very well. Are there people who didn't have problems, and canting was one of the things that set them off, or if there are people that used a canted blade after a problem and it helped. My guess is that there are so many confounding factors that we really won't ever know. | |
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09-22-2009, 10:43 AM
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#12 | | Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Scotland
Posts: 5,522
| Quote:
Originally Posted by MyrddinsPrecint I would suggest that the people near the top are usually the people who have bodies that are more resistant to injury in general. I wonder about the group of us who aren't put together very well. Are there people who didn't have problems, and canting was one of the things that set them off, or if there are people that used a canted blade after a problem and it helped. My guess is that there are so many confounding factors that we really won't ever know. | I'm sorry but please explain what injuries have to do with canted blades? | |
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09-22-2009, 10:49 AM
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#13 | | Fencing Expert
Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Virginia
Posts: 2,514
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Originally Posted by Gav I'm sorry but please explain what injuries have to do with canted blades? | When Inq sees you with a canted blade, he invariably cuts himself by gnashing his teeth.
Sorry, I couldn't resist.... | |
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09-22-2009, 10:51 AM
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#14 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: USA
Posts: 1,764
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Gav I'm sorry but please explain what injuries have to do with canted blades? | Ever try to bend a really tough tang? You could hurt something doing it.
R-
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09-22-2009, 10:51 AM
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#15 | | Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Scotland
Posts: 5,522
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Originally Posted by Allen Evans When Inq sees you with a canted blade, he invariably cuts himself by gnashing his teeth.
Sorry, I couldn't resist.... | I thought that was only when the blade was bent? | |
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09-22-2009, 11:53 AM
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#16 | | Curmudgeon Emeritus
Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Somewhere in your nightmares!
Posts: 27,354
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Gav I'm sorry but please explain what injuries have to do with canted blades? |
And so the serious answer is left to me? Really, folks?
Anyway, Gav---ergonomics play a part in repetitive motion injuries. It's conceivable that blade/grip cants could either cause or alleviate these. Admittedly, probably a very small chance of either.
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09-22-2009, 02:57 PM
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#17 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: NYC-Columbia University
Posts: 604
| I am unconvinced that it is possible. Could you provide research concerning injuries to the hand and wrist due specifically to canting weapons?
:-P
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09-22-2009, 03:06 PM
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#18 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Philly
Posts: 850
| Quote:
Originally Posted by epeelion I am unconvinced that it is possible. Could you provide research concerning injuries to the hand and wrist due specifically to canting weapons?
:-P | I don't have any actual research data available, so I'm just talking off the top of my head here, not offering any proof, just some initial thoughts.
Possible effect of canted tang blades on injuries (in epee):
On the delivering side:
Canted tangs may allow the wielder of an epee to exert more in-line force into the blade, hence increasing the hit impact, and, in the case of unfortunate impact-bends or broken blades, increasing the risk of penetration injury.
On the receiving end:
Canting a tang may increase the target surface and target angle of your blade hand, sometimes beyond coverage of the guard. This increase of available target area, combined with the more perpendicular nature of the resulting impact could lead to increased risk of injury.
Like I said, just offering some thoughts based on my understanding of blade physics. | |
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09-22-2009, 03:37 PM
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#19 | | Curmudgeon Emeritus
Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Somewhere in your nightmares!
Posts: 27,354
| Quote:
Originally Posted by epeelion I am unconvinced that it is possible. Could you provide research concerning injuries to the hand and wrist due specifically to canting weapons?
:-P | It says so in the Bible. That's all the proof that anyone needs.
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09-22-2009, 03:56 PM
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#20 | | Senior Member
Join Date: May 2003 Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 5,397
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Gav I'm sorry but please explain what injuries have to do with canted blades? | Quote:
Originally Posted by Inquartata And so the serious answer is left to me? Really, folks?
Anyway, Gav---ergonomics play a part in repetitive motion injuries. It's conceivable that blade/grip cants could either cause or alleviate these. Admittedly, probably a very small chance of either. | Quote:
Originally Posted by epeelion I am unconvinced that it is possible. Could you provide research concerning injuries to the hand and wrist due specifically to canting weapons?
:-P |
Having not thought about this much at all, I would assume that it's somewhat more likely that a cant would prevent/help a repetitive motion injury than a cant would create an injury. But having NO data and NO expertise in any subject that relates, I have to assume that it could do anything or nothing.
It may also be that for someone that has a repetative motion injury after using a canted blade might find using an uncanted blade to be somewhat helpful (because the slight difference might be enough of a different motion).
Again, there are so many different factors I'm not sure if it's possible to design an experiment that would generate good data. | |
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