Compilation Video: Lontay's Attacks

[Inquartata]

Yes. Unless maybe you are at that level yourself. If you are not, then assuming one ever gets to a World Cup you are going to have to go through all of those below-top-24 guys before you can get a shot at the ones you've been studying. If you can't get past #25, or #32, or #64, then what good is it to know only what to expect from the top fencers?

Plus, unless you want to pay him this is Andrew's gig. At least let him do what interests him. If he gets bored doing these, maybe he quits doing them.

But what do I know, I'm no Yuri Gelman...

[CyrusofChaos]

Plus, unless you want to pay him this is Andrew's gig. At least let him do what interests him

will take requests $s anyone have any suggestions? the next video will be a lapkes attack video, followed by a dumitrescu preparation video, and the one after that i have not started yet. i am thinking a buikevich counterattack video although it is up to you guys...and whoever pays me the most

[springdon]

true, creative ideas dont always lead somewhere and sometimes it is better to be efficient, but if you dont at least consider looking at these people you are going to miss out on a majority of what makes the sport interesting

I think this exactly right. Also, there are guys who do some really cool stuff but can't get it together (injury, not psychologically tough, etc.) to break into the top rank. Also, the top 24 can be somewhat static. IMHO, I think that Verbrackal, Medard, Hugo and other young french fencers are more interesting to watch than Pillet or Sanson, but when do we get to see them? (and poor Tricarico and Iacometti cooling their heels while the Italian team stays basically the same since, when -- 2000?)

But anyway -- Lapkes (Hooray! I thought he did some great stuff in the Olympics team event against Italy [he owned Occhiuzzi.]) I would like to see something about Zalomir or, hey -- what about a little love for the Germans? They seemed to be gone for a while but now Limbach, Klebes, Huebner and Beisheim are doing pretty well.

[CyrusofChaos]

I think this exactly right. Also, there are guys who do some really cool stuff but can't get it together (injury, not psychologically tough, etc.) to break into the top rank. Also, the top 24 can be somewhat static. IMHO, I think that Verbrackal, Medard, Hugo and other young french fencers are more interesting to watch than Pillet or Sanson, but when do we get to see them? (and poor Tricarico and Iacometti cooling their heels while the Italian team stays basically the same since, when -- 2000?)

But anyway -- Lapkes (Hooray! I thought he did some great stuff in the Olympics team event against Italy [he owned Occhiuzzi.]) I would like to see something about Zalomir or, hey -- what about a little love for the Germans? They seemed to be gone for a while but now Limbach, Klebes, Huebner and Beisheim are doing pretty well.

thank you, that is exactly what i was trying to say (but not doing a great job of it). yeah, lapkes beat the hell out of occhiuzzi in the team events. maybe when i have about 10 hours to kill i will get those on my youtube account too. as for zalomir or the germans, i do like zalomirs fencing a lot but i dont have nearly enough footage of him to make a compilation. i will look into this in future world cups though... as for the germans, i am not particularly taken with any of them. the only thing i like about them is huebners attack, but i dont have enough footage of him to make a video of this either. another problem that will hopefully be remedied at future world cups

[springdon]

I think it makes sense that Zolamir and the Germans have to wait.

I am not sure how much footage you need, but another idea is Reshetnikov. I think you have two of his from Madrid and one from Dallas. He also just kind of came from nowhere to win the European Championships (beating Pastore and Pillet) and it is on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=th8_G...om=PL&index=21

But that still may not be enough footage.

Whatever you decide, thanks so much for taking the time to do them!

[seven6ty]

That's a long attack? Hrmph, sabre, I guess.

[Mr.MightyMouse]

Anti-flunge I guess?
Zalomir quit fencing for quite a while, my understanding is that he actually served in the Foreign Legion.

[CyrusofChaos]

I am not sure how much footage you need, but another idea is Reshetnikov. I think you have two of his from Madrid and one from Dallas. He also just kind of came from nowhere to win the European Championships (beating Pastore and Pillet) and it is on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=th8_G...om=PL&index=21

But that still may not be enough footage.

as you say, i only have two bouts of him and i cant use someone elses footage without their permission. in this lapkes video tim morehouse had two videos that had so many examples of what lapkes was doing that i had to have them. otherwise i generally prefer not to do that...

[springdon]

Totally understandable.

But in talking all things Lapkes and Belarus, have you seen:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FK4eVOG7CNM

[CyrusofChaos]

Totally understandable.

But in talking all things Lapkes and Belarus, have you seen:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FK4eVOG7CNM

i had not seen that actually, thank you. lapkes is one of the very few fencers that i really enjoy watching (lopez and iliasz are the others) so if anyone has any footage of these guys please let me know. thanks!

[seven6ty]

as you say, i only have two bouts of him and i cant use someone elses footage without their permission.

Is there a reason why not? If you're not making money off of it, and if it's used for educational purposes, I don't think there should be any issue with that.

[CyrusofChaos]

Is there a reason why not? If you're not making money off of it, and if it's used for educational purposes, I don't think there should be any issue with that.

you might think so, but the problem with that video is that it is owned by someone else. if i want to use it i would have to get the permission of the youtube user and permission of whatever company filmed it initially. also i dont see anything outstanding about reshetnikov that i want to do a video about so its not really worth the trouble just to get one more bout of him...

[SpiralGalaxy]

Let me add my thanks for these video analyses! They're also very useful to me as a novice referee.

Quick (and possibly silly) question: is there some reason that in the Lontay vs. Wang, right handed vs. left handed bout, both fencers appear to have their backs to the referee and camera? I thought left handers *always* line up on the left?

[CyrusofChaos]

Let me add my thanks for these video analyses! They're also very useful to me as a novice referee.

Quick (and possibly silly) question: is there some reason that in the Lontay vs. Wang, right handed vs. left handed bout, both fencers appear to have their backs to the referee and camera? I thought left handers *always* line up on the left?

actually that is something that happens in america for the most part. at the olympics and world cups it is just whatever side you are called on is the side you fenced on. in this case though, hungary was on the left and china was on the right so that is where these two ended up

[Mihail]

Let me add my thanks for these video analyses! They're also very useful to me as a novice referee.

Quick (and possibly silly) question: is there some reason that in the Lontay vs. Wang, right handed vs. left handed bout, both fencers appear to have their backs to the referee and camera? I thought left handers *always* line up on the left?

Nowadays, that's mostly a USFA convention. In most world cups, and in all bouts where video replay is used, the first fencer called is on the right and the second fencer called is on the left, regardless of handedness.

Also, from a personal point of view, I've never noticed more difficulty seeing actions if both fencers' fencing hands are to me. A large part of that is due to having to use the machine to judge the validity of hits; I'm sure it was a much more important convention in the dry days.

[SpiralGalaxy]

Cool, thanks! That's good to know.

[Inquartata]

If I can make a suggestion for a future analysis...I'd love to get your views on the little footwork preparations on the line that certain fencers---I think mostly those who have been coached by Bauer---use. For instance, the French and Chinese both sometimes do a small step back, then in again. There's also an occasional thing where the front foot goes forward, the back foot goes back, but there's no actual motion back or forward---just a widening of the stance.

Maybe these are common at WC level, but I have only caught them watching the French, Chinese and once a Hungarian. I'm intrigued by the unforced step back from the line, which I was taught is heresy in sabre...

It might involve splicing bits of too many videos, I dunno. Up to you.

[oiuyt]

Maybe these are common at WC level, but I have only caught them watching the French, Chinese and once a Hungarian. I'm intrigued by the unforced step back from the line, which I was taught is heresy in sabre...

Podzniakov is who I normally most associate with these types of steps, perhaps because he's who I first noticed using them. There's a fairly wide range of people who use variations of this to a greater or lesser extent.

-B

[CyrusofChaos]

If I can make a suggestion for a future analysis...I'd love to get your views on the little footwork preparations on the line that certain fencers---I think mostly those who have been coached by Bauer---use. For instance, the French and Chinese both sometimes do a small step back, then in again. There's also an occasional thing where the front foot goes forward, the back foot goes back, but there's no actual motion back or forward---just a widening of the stance.

Maybe these are common at WC level, but I have only caught them watching the French, Chinese and once a Hungarian. I'm intrigued by the unforced step back from the line, which I was taught is heresy in sabre...

i like, i am actually a big user of these types of things too. but i cant do a video on it, it requires me to show a lot of previous parts of the bout to show how those types of things are set up and it is completely different from bout to bout. for me at least i was always told it was very important to change up your rhythm and speed off the line and i was looking at many different examples of this from the us (all the footage i had at the time) and realized what you just said: everyone goes forwards off the line to start. for me at least this is a way of breaking up the game that a lot of people get stuck playing. a lot of time in this game if nobody has control and people are tentative it is often random whether or not your ideas will work, and this is what happens in a lot of back and forth bouts that end up being 15-14 or 15-13. check out rogers v williams from tuscon a few years ago to see what i mean. anyway, taking a step backwards, standing there when the ref says fence, splitting your feet, taking two steps and stopping like dumitrescu, and to a lesser degree the double appel you see some fencers do is just another way to refuse to play the game. the problem with making a video for this is that you need to set these things up, which would require a lot of video for each of these things...with everyone except dumitrescu and after this video he is the next

[RITFencing]

which I was taught

THREAD DRIFT WARNING

As a coach, I hate this phrase. Though it may not be the case this time, it is almost always connected to a statement that the speaker (or typist) does not fully understand the reasoning behind and therefore uses nothing other than the words of their coach or some other person, which may or may not be correct.

Without the understanding of why something is the way it is, that thing will likely be applied improperly to a greater or lesser degree. While there are times I ask my students to just trust me in the short term, I try to view "because my coach said so," as a stopgap solution at best.

/DRIFT