More racist claims

[Greybeard]

Let me jack the thread, I have had stuff held against me because I am Jewish. But then I just foreclosed their home as part of the controllers of world funds

[thereom4]

ILS is clearly using discrimination in its older form, meaning simply the act of discerning between two things. Under this definition, anything that even identifies race is discrimination.

You obviously are using the more modern term born of common usage of discrimination as it applies to racial prejudice.

What you guys need to do is tighten up your vocabulary a little, then a real discussion can take place.

Maybe let ILS say that? But thanks. Also I think it's clear that racial "discrimination" then when AA was mandated was not about discernment it was about exclusion and prejudice which is where the problem and I think issue lies.

[thereom4]

Let me jack the thread, I have had stuff held against me because I am Jewish. But then I just foreclosed their home as part of the controllers of world funds

Awesomeness!

[jeff]

Cool. PM me.

No need. When I find a funny enough one I plagiarize and post to the board one place or another

[jeff]

I don't think that's fair. Maybe you should read my posts in more detail (...really big snip...)

ILS, believe me when I tell you that I was commenting in general, not responding to your specific points. Please re-read my posts in that light and you'll see I wasn't sniping at you. For the substantive points, I take a position pretty similar to what keith is saying.


Slim: sorry if you were confused by the joke portion of the post you quoted and the serious portion preceding it. If you think there's no racism in this society (affecting access to jobs, loans, educational advantage, etc) then you've closed your eyes to reality or you're deluding yourself. I can't fix either of those problems. If you hire color-blind, that's great, but there are others who don't. And nobody here is saying that racism is a whites-only disease, so don't pull out the straw man.

Greybeard: nice one. I'll make a point of not pissing you off!

[chase]

your right THERE IS RACISM. its called REVERSE RACISM.

it is a fact that women and minorities are given spots in college admissions that they dont deserve due to quotas.

after college they get jobs they dont deserve because of affirmative action.

our economy suffers as a result because the best and brightest are not rising to the top, the undeserving women and minorities are.

i have never seen any act of racism happen and i live in texas which ought to be racist if one were to buy youre "conservative=racist" viewpoint (even though abraham lincoln was a REPUBLICAN and all the racist leaders were DEMOCRATS).

sure there are acts of racism that happen but their so far and few between that they dont justify subjecting a nationwide reverse racist plan.

[I_luv_saber]

Simply put the observation is that if Group A is used to getting something since Group B is generally excluded, the individual members of Group A are going to be disadvantaged when Group B gets a look in. Whether you call it penalised, or victimised or getting their just deserts is beside the point - but not beside the political point.

To me, penalize seems to imply that you are at a disadvantage rather than brought back to equal footing.

In hockey when team A commits a foul they are penalized (put in a position of disadvantage). When the player's time in the box is done then team A returns to their position of equal footing, team B is not penalized!

Tomato, tomahto, though I suspect...

I think you have this the wrong way around. After all if people can work their way through college there is really no need to use income/poverty as a criteria for discrimination?

Not in terms of accepting applicants, no. I'm happy as long as there are programs in place that would bring them to equal footing (i.e. ability to afford college).

Again the wrong way around. I was observing that the criticism that AA is unfair since innocent white folk get penalised, is the same as using any other basis of discrimination for access.

To a point I agree with that. As I said, I wouldn't support direct advantage through points or some such (direct access advantage). Equality of access I do support, both in terms of race and social class. The two things attempt to solve the same problem, but in different ways.

It's all discrimination, but I argue that not all discrimination can be tossed in the same boat. I think I've sufficiently made my point why one discrimination, such as skill, would be morally OK as opposed to one such as race. If you don't agree, that's fine.

Slice it however you wish, AA is still racial discrimination to fight racial discrimination.

Semantics, if a college/government is to provide these services the money has to come from somewhere.

And all the money now would disappear at the elimination of AA?

Face it, you just don't like rich people.

I guess I'm a bleeding heart liberal after all

[I_luv_saber]

Let me jack the thread, I have had stuff held against me because I am Jewish. But then I just foreclosed their home as part of the controllers of world funds

Dammit Greybeard, I can't rep you yet!

ILS, believe me when I tell you that I was commenting in general, not responding to your specific points. Please re-read my posts in that light and you'll see I wasn't sniping at you. For the substantive points, I take a position pretty similar to what keith is saying.

I am sorry for taking the comments personally, then. Being just about the only one extensively arguing the point against AA due to discrmination, it seemed they were directed at me. I apologize for taking it wrong, however.

FWIW, I do agree there is a large chunk of people who are like that: Racism isn't a big deal until it's happening to them. Most of these people crying "reverse racism" for example.

[I_luv_saber]

your right THERE IS RACISM. its called REVERSE RACISM.

There's racism all around. Denying that people who are black, latino, what have you, are discriminated against by society is ridiculous.

i have never seen any act of racism happen and i live in texas which ought to be racist if one were to buy youre "conservative=racist" viewpoint (even though abraham lincoln was a REPUBLICAN and all the racist leaders were DEMOCRATS).

How 'bout you just Google some choice words and then try and tell me racism isn't alive? Racism will never die. Humans have a natural pull towards excluding one group so that their group can be more powerful. Sometimes it's done by a geographical area, sometimes by race, sometimes by sex, but we do it and have done it for generations upon generations. Luckily, we've reached a point where (I honestly think) the majority of people have been able to mostly overcome that instinct and enlighten themselves to the fact that we're all equals, even if we are different.

Unfortunately, there will always be a group around that either truly does not feel that way, or will use that exclusion to put themselves in a position of power.

sure there are acts of racism that happen but their so far and few between that they dont justify subjecting a nationwide reverse racist plan.

I don't agree with AA because I do not stand behind fighting discrimination with more discrimination. That does not mean I think discrimination isn't happening or that we shouldn't be fighting the discrimination that has occurred and is still occurring. Regardless of whether it's happening a lot or a little, racial discrimination is something so ugly that any amount justifies a fight against it. I just think we're going about it the wrong way...

[fencerchica]

i have never seen any act of racism happen and i live in texas which ought to be racist if one were to buy youre "conservative=racist" viewpoint (even though abraham lincoln was a REPUBLICAN and all the racist leaders were DEMOCRATS).

1) Your lack of knowledge of American history is pathetic. The key words here are "The Southern Strategy".

2) How about the "Values Voters Conference" last weekend? Even Charles Johnson is outraged by the overt racism on display.

[MyrddinsPrecint]

your right THERE IS RACISM. its called REVERSE RACISM.

I do not understand this popular term "reverse racism". Racism has to do with unfair judgments and actions based on race. How do you reverse that? Fair judgments and actions based on race? What would that be? "You're black, I'm guessing on average you don't get as many sunburns as I do?" ... I get what the phrase is trying to say, I just think it's bull****.

it is a fact that women and minorities are given spots in college admissions that they dont deserve due to quotas.

Actually, no, it's not a fact. Perhaps it's true that women used to be given spots in college admissions due to quotas. It's not true anymore. Females are (on average) now doing much better in high school than males. Better grades didn't surprise people much, but between testing scores going up and colleges putting less stress on the SATs..... before we had a completely gender segregated college system, which didn't work well for women. We're now entering into an education system that's not serving men as well as women are being served. We're not exactly sure why, either, but guesses include that girls are better conditioned to sit down and pay attention than boys are.

i have never seen any act of racism happen and i live in texas which ought to be racist if one were to buy youre "conservative=racist" viewpoint (even though abraham lincoln was a REPUBLICAN and all the racist leaders were DEMOCRATS).

sure there are acts of racism that happen but their so far and few between that they dont justify subjecting a nationwide reverse racist plan.

How many Black kids go to your school? Hispanic? Is this the same as the rate of those groups in the general population in your area? What's the rate of those groups in the population of Texas? Why do you think those numbers are different?

[Digital Analog]

your right THERE IS RACISM. its called REVERSE RACISM.
our economy suffers as a result because the best and brightest are not rising to the top, the undeserving women and minorities are.

So you think that only white males are deserving of the top positions? That no women or minorities could ever achieve the skills necessary to succeed?

Hmm... that is revealing

[chase]

So you think that only white males are deserving of the top positions? That no women or minorities could ever achieve the skills necessary to succeed?

Hmm... that is revealing

Nice straw-man. Try winning an argument by acknowledging the full context of your opponents statement: I said UNDESERVING women and minorities. There are plenty of people in minority groups that deserve top spots but they should have the test scores and grades to back it up.

[migopod]

Nice straw-man. Try winning an argument by acknowledging the full context of your opponents statement: I said UNDESERVING women and minorities. There are plenty of people in minority groups that deserve top spots but they should have the test scores and grades to back it up.

In fairness your lack of skill with the English language may be to blame.

our economy suffers as a result because the best and brightest are not rising to the top, the undeserving women and minorities are.

What you have written can easily be interpreted as either "Women and minorities don't deserve to rise to the top." or "Some women and minorities who don't deserve it are rising to the top because of racial and gender quotas." Given the general bile and vitriol you tend to spew, the first meaning made the most sense in the general context of your character.

[Digital Analog]

Nice straw-man. Try winning an argument by acknowledging the full context of your opponents statement: I said UNDESERVING women and minorities. There are plenty of people in minority groups that deserve top spots but they should have the test scores and grades to back it up.

Say what you mean, I don't like reading insane right-wing screeds but if I have to I must ask that you not abuse the English language.

[Inquartata]

Heh. The argument that ending racial discrimination requires racial discrimination always reminds me of Monty Python's Vice-Pope Eric, when he said that "...you are trying to propagate a creed of poverty, gentleness and tolerance, you need a very rich, powerful, authoritarian organisation to do it."

[jessicasimpson]

I would bet that chase's school burned all their copies of "To Kill a Mockingbird" long ago.

[thereom4]

our economy suffers as a result because the best and brightest are not rising to the top, the undeserving women and minorities are.

You might be a racist if......you believe that the best and the brightest are only white men.

The only way you'll survive in this world with an opinion like that is to (like many racists) keep it to yourself. Just a piece of advise.

[migopod]

I would bet that chase's school burned all their copies of "To Kill a Mockingbird" long ago.

To be fair, that's probably because they discovered that it wasn't about shooting wildlife after all.

[jessicasimpson]

your right THERE IS RACISM. its called REVERSE RACISM.

i have never seen any act of racism happen and i live in texas which ought to be racist if one were to buy youre "conservative=racist" viewpoint (even though abraham lincoln was a REPUBLICAN and all the racist leaders were DEMOCRATS).

sure there are acts of racism that happen but their so far and few between that they dont justify subjecting a nationwide reverse racist plan.

Ok, say I believe you have never witnessed racism, so you think it is few and far between. But you seem to strongly believe that reverse racism exists, so..
Give us an example of "reverse racism" that you personaly have witnessed.