No sword, need a start

[Vespa]

Hi,

I'm new to fencing (100%) and am very interested in being a fencer. There is a local club in Lincoln Nebraska but I haven't contacted them yet.

For almost four years I have shot a bow. I rapidly went from a classic recurve to a full-on olympic recurve. I shoot at least three times per week.

I am interested in fencing and want to know what sort of equipment I should get and even what of the three swords I should use.

If it helps, I shoot 42.2 pounds at my fingers and shoot 200-300 arrows each time I get a chance to shoot. I realize that pro shooters do 300-500+ arrows a day each time they practice but unfortunately I didn't start when I was a tot (I am a cubicle slave most of the week).

I feel pretty strong in my upper back but not great in the aerobic department.

Here are my questions:
1. Where should I start equipment-wise?

2. How many days/hours should I practice before I should be competent to show up in a tournament without being embarrassed?

3. Is bicycling good for conditioning the heart/lungs and legs for fencing? I know doing archery is good for archery but doing certain exercises helps in the repetitive strength department.

Thanks!

[Stormbringer]

As far as getting started, the historical tradition - and still the most common practice, I suspect - is to introduce people to fencing through foil, as it introduces a number of skills that could, potentially, prove useful in either (and, occasionally, both) of the other two weapons, making it something of a "middle ground". Though, there is a case for starting a prospective fencer on either epee or sabre, rather than foil - especially if the nearest coach/club only teaches one of those, and/or if the student is adamant about learning epee or sabre, without having to be bothered with having to unlearn the (relatively) bad habits that come with learning foil before progressing to epee or sabre.

Bear in mind, that some (most?) clubs will start one with a significant period (sometimes on the order of weeks, sometimes on the order of months; it varies from club to club) of footwork and general conditioning, which is (with a few key exceptions) identical regardless of what weapon one is holding.

Depending on one's natural aptitude, and the quality and frequency of instruction one receives, and the weapon that one is using/specializing in, it could take several weeks - or, potentially, months - to reach a point where one could expect to perform well in a sizable competition.

As to the equipment... the cost depends on the brand name, the vendor, and the quality of the equipment, and how you go about acquiring it. Most vendors that I can think of are located on the east coast (including Absolute Fencing Gear (NJ), Blade Fencing Equipment (NY), Blue Gauntlet (NJ), Escrime International (NJ), PBT-USA (NC), Physical Chess (NJ), and Triplette Competition Arms (NC)), with a few in the south (Fencing.net (GA), Leon Paul USA (GA), and Sword Masters (Louisiana)), and a few in California (American Fencers Supply Co., H.O.M. Fencing, and The Fencing Post).
Most (including myself) would recommend buying in person, if possible; this usually involves going to a near-by vendor (assuming you live close enough to one), finding a club with a built-in equipment shop, or attending a large tournament where vendor booths will be present.
In fact, there will be two large, national level tournaments in your area - one in Des Moines on October 09-12, and one in Kansas City on November 06-09.
If those aren't options, one can place orders through the vendors' websites and over the phone.

That said, a basic beginner set consists of a basic mask, a jacket, a glove, and a non-electric ("dry") weapon, and will cost ~$90-$110. A higher grade set will add a basic fencing bag, and will cost ~$110-$120. Some will even have complete uniforms for sale as a set (such as Absolute's deluxe sets). Those vendors will also tend to have electric sets that allow one to purchase the additional equipment needed to participate in a tournament.

A "full" equipment set will include a mask, jacket, knickers, glove, underarm protector (called a "plastron"; not to be confused with the plastic chest protectors), at least two electric weapons, at least two body cords, a conductive vest/jacket (called a "lamé" ("leh-may"); for foil and sabre), spare parts and tools for basic maintenance and repair, and a bag in which to store all of this.

The price of lessons is much more variable, and can even be negotiable, depending on the coach.
(Having come from, and still being primarily involved with, a college club environment, that was never really something I had to address directly, to I'll leave it for others to comment.)

Likewise, what does and does not make for ideal cross-training is likely better left for another, with more experience and/or specialized knowledge than I, to address.

[Wetmelon]

Well, first of all, WELCOME!

I'm too tired to answer the others, but for #3:

Being involved in archery myself, I know what it takes to shoot properly. Many of the psychological aspects are the same as in fencing. I would say that anything you can do to keep yourself in good shape for aerobic activities will help your fencing. However, more than anything, the focus and mindset of archery, being able to think sequentially about the sport (as in archery you start with feet, legs, torso, shoulder position, shoulder muscles, arm muscles, wrists, hands, fingers, string, bow, tip, then fletching) will make you a better fencer.

Sorry if none of that makes sense - it's still the first week of classes for my uni career... and I'm tired

[larkascending]

You probably shouldn't buy any gear, especially weapons, until you know which one you like. If you go to the fencing club they should have weapons that you can borrow and try while you learn the basics.

As for competing, you can do that as soon as you feel confident enough to give it a shot. I did my first tournament after about three weeks.

[Vespa]

Thank you all for the rapid replies! I'm not against starting with the lightest sword (foil?) to start for form. If fencing is a back muscle thing like archery then I think I'm ready for an épée or maybe a saber. Please correct me if I'm wrong weight-to-weight.

With true target archery, it's all about accuracy, repeatability over and over but not quickly. To me it looks like fencing is about rapid accuracy.

For now, I'm mostly interested in the focus and fitness of fencing. With archery it's all about being your personal best but fencing adds a whole new aspect in that you are directly against a human foe and not just the numbers of an arrow on a target.

Don't get me wrong, I still love archery but want another sport to expand my horizons.

ps. I'm right handed but went left handed for archery (hold bow with right hand, pull string with left hand) due to being left eye dominant. I would assume I would be a right hand fencer due to me doing most things right handed.

[Morale Officer]

First - yes, cycling can help. Most of my clubmates prefer to run. I, on the other hand, having absolutely horrid knees, choose to use a stationary bike due to the low impact. It's really just a personal choice. Now the exception to this is prior to tournaments. Then I'll make sure I get at least my socks, knee braces, and knickers on (uniform-wise) and I'll put sneakers and my iPod on and walk to both make sure the braces are in place and to warm up prior to footwork.
Second - As far as which hand to fence with...one of the gentlemen in the beginners class is normally right handed. He said he saw that there was only one lefty, so he decided to learn to fence lefty. So...pick a hand you're comfortable with and have at!

[tdwg83]

Thank you all for the rapid replies! I'm not against starting with the lightest sword (foil?) to start for form. If fencing is a back muscle thing like archery then I think I'm ready for an épée or maybe a saber. Please correct me if I'm wrong weight-to-weight.

With true target archery, it's all about accuracy, repeatability over and over but not quickly. To me it looks like fencing is about rapid accuracy.

For now, I'm mostly interested in the focus and fitness of fencing. With archery it's all about being your personal best but fencing adds a whole new aspect in that you are directly against a human foe and not just the numbers of an arrow on a target.

Don't get me wrong, I still love archery but want another sport to expand my horizons.

ps. I'm right handed but went left handed for archery (hold bow with right hand, pull string with left hand) due to being left eye dominant. I would assume I would be a right hand fencer due to me doing most things right handed.

Choosing a weapon doesn't have to do a whole lot with the weapons weight. Rather its more about the rules the govern each weapon. I think that the Lincoln Fencing club does beginning classes in foil. However their website doesn't really say which weapon. They do mention that you will need to purchase a glove as a beginner and that is $10 at class time.

[Lady Quindecim]

I am going to apologize for not reading 100% of the replies, because I ... well, nevermind.

The weight difference between the weapons is no significant. I mean, starting out, whichever weapon you choose, your arm will get tired. I am like 4'10, 90lbs and I fence epee. have for years. Sure I started with foil. I think it is good to start with foil. Not critical, but I like that I did.

There can be a great difference in weight _within each weapon type_ so I would not let that be the deciding factor.

As mentioned, just about any aerobic activity that you and your body are happy with is good. The most important is something "gentle" on your bod, that you like so you will be able to keep it up.

And Welcome!

[Downtown]

Everything that needs to be said has been said. However, one more welcome will not hurt....so.... Welcome.

[TBean]

Thank you all for the rapid replies! I'm not against starting with the lightest sword (foil?) to start for form. If fencing is a back muscle thing like archery then I think I'm ready for an épée or maybe a saber. Please correct me if I'm wrong weight-to-weight.

A modern saber does not weigh any more than a foil. Epee is the heaviest of the three modern weapons, but the weight difference is not that great. While a well developed back and shoulders will not hurt you, there is also a great deal of hand, wrist, forearm and bicep/tricep involvement. All of which, I would think, are developed participating in archery.

Choosing what weapon you are going to fence is a matter of personal preference, physicality, and what the club you train at has to offer. I go a club trains all three weapons - as a 5'7" woman I really could have fenced any of the weapons, but I liked epee so that is what I do. Unless you have to choose your weapon the moment you walk into the door at your club, go through the classes they have to offer to beginners, learn something about how each of the weapons is fenced, and then decide.

Don't rush to buy equipment until you think you like the sport. Your club should give you ideas of what you need to purchase and when. As for which hand you want to fence with, either one. Fencing is something that you learn from scratch, so if you are not a complete muscular idiot with the left side of your body, you can see how that feels for you. I switched from right-handed to left-handed fencing due to injury after 16 years of fencing, so it is perfectly possible to fence with your non-dominant hand. Also, if you know your left eye is dominant, than you might want that to be how you fence with the left being your leading eye.

[Vespa]

A...While a well developed back and shoulders will not hurt you, there is also a great deal of hand, wrist, forearm and bicep/tricep involvement. All of which, I would think, are developed participating in archery.

Actually, every serious recurve archer I've seen has the arms of a T-rex: puny and slim (relatively speaking)! The archer's best ally physically is in the upper back muscles, esp. the ones between the scapulae. But archery is such a different sport.

...but I liked epee so that is what I do.

Indeed, the épeé looks like a lot of fun. Looks like you can whack (well, poke) every part on the other person for points and no 'right of way' rules. I want to try all three though and decide like you said.

...

As for which hand you want to fence with, either one. Fencing is something that you learn from scratch, so if you are not a complete muscular idiot with the left side of your body, you can see how that feels for you. I switched from right-handed to left-handed fencing due to injury after 16 years of fencing, so it is perfectly possible to fence with your non-dominant hand. Also, if you know your left eye is dominant, than you might want that to be how you fence with the left being your leading eye.

In the hand dominace vs. the eye dominance department there are plenty of heated arguments in the archery world that end up with something like, 'Well so-and-so won a bunch of gold medals and he/she shoots hand dominance vs. eye dominance....' I wound up shooting my eye dominance and it's really working great, even from day one I knew it was right to switch hands.

The big difference I see between archery and fencing is that you stand still in archery and can close your dominant eye to aim. I would think that having a 3D view is very important with fencing. I'm pretty right handed so I think it will work for me to fence with my right. We'll see!

I sent an e-mail to the person listed as the contact for the local club. I'll let them guide me until I get some fencing smarts and understand how my attributes fit in and what can be changed to work for me.

Thank-you for sharing with me TBean!

[Inquartata]

Actually, every serious recurve archer I've seen has the arms of a T-rex: puny and slim (relatively speaking)! The archer's best ally physically is in the upper back muscles, esp. the ones between the scapulae.

That's because they shoot those silly compound bows! If they used a longbow, things would be very different. Accounts of English archers during the Hundred Years War described them as almost deformed, with overdeveloped arms and shoulders.

And then there are composite bows. Brr! One shudders to think.

[jeff]

First of all - welcome to the board, and more important, to fencing.

There have been several good comments, but perhaps one omission: you'll want to develop mobility and footwork. I don't think one moves around a lot in archery, but fencing is dominated by footwork. In addition to aerobic and anaerobic capacity, you'll need and develop leg muscles. As said before, weapon weight is pretty irrelevant - fencing is not about brute arm strength.

Hmmm. Bucks County fencing club in NJ has an archery club/school almost next door. Perhaps they should work together.

[UnidentifiedFencerOnline]

welcome!
whatever weapon you choose while doing Aerobic exercise, remember to give both sides equal amount of workout cos fencing is a bit of a disproportionate spotr with the side of your sword arm being stronger than the side thats not. it took me about 6 months to get to tournament level cos i only did about 1 hour of fencing a week. it totally varies for different people.