Compilation Video: Pillet Decsi Slow Attacks

[CyrusofChaos]

hey guys, i know its not saturday yet but i have been having some uploading problems recently and since i was able to upload this video today i decided to make it public a day early just for the heck of it. this video features an attack that many fencers use where they build up a lot of speed and then throw out a very long, slow finish that i call a slow attack in this video. although a lot of fencers use this attack i have chosen to look at pillet and decsi specifically because i have a lot of footage of them from the olympics. check out their bouts to see more applied examples of their attacks. enjoy the video!

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjBXN5znLQU&feature=channel_page[/YOUTUBE]

[CyrusofChaos]

guys i feel like a jerk bumping my own thread but i was hoping for a bit of constructive feedback: was there stuff in there you disagreed with? was the text time too short? were there parts in the video you especially liked or were especially bored by? anything? i know its hard for you to believe but i actually do try and take into account what you guys think for future videos and i would really like some comments on this

[whtouche]

I enjoyed this video quite a bit. At first when you said slow attack I wasn't exactly sure what you meant, but the explanation coupled with the examples made it very easy to see. I particularly enjoyed the different variations of this type of attack that allowed it to finish successfully (beats to maniupulate distance, big distance making feints safer). I think a little bit more on the weaknesses / how to defeat this type of attack with have been better. Particularly interesting would have been a breakdown of how Pillet is able to defeat this type of attack. In the few clips of this it looked like the key was staying close and on-balance and hitting in preparation with a closeout to defeat the big handed finish.

I hope it's not too early to make a request for the next one. I think a compilation video of attacks finishing with flunge would be extremely useful. For me personally where lunging can be extremely painful (due to back issues) I've taken to attemptin to finish with flunge more often, so such a video would be extremely instructive.

[telkanuru]

IDK about others, but it's hard for me to give that sort of constructive feedback when the subject material is above me and being taught to me. I watched the thing, thought it was very interesting and that I could apply bits and pieces of things to epee, and appreciated the effort.

[prototoast]

The good: lots of good fencing & technique to learn from. The captions do a good job of drawing the viewer (me) to noticing useful things in the fencing. Watching it definitely makes me want to go fencing (I wish I hadn't left all my stuff in Massachusetts).

The bad: The selection of clips leaves me questioning whether or not they are really Representative of the outcomes, or if the selection for the compilation is misleading. It's probably too much work, but some statistic analysis of outcomes would ease my mind.

[Peach]

I watched it and thought I wouldn't describe them as "slow attacks" but more as remises--not just in the cases where they obviously flail a bit but also in many cases where the front foot lands before they finish. I may be wrong--only watched it once on the fly.

I like the music.

[RITFencing]

CoC, I really enjoyed this and definitely got lots out of it. You analyzed both how to make such attacks work and how to deal with them. Please keep up the excellent work.

Just for my own gratification: It seems, the the segment of the Pillet v. Dumitriscu bout, Pillet is able to defeat Dumitriscu's slow attacks through his use of distance and false counter attacks to draw the end of the attack prematurely. Would you agree with that?

[CyrusofChaos]

Just for my own gratification: It seems, the the segment of the Pillet v. Dumitriscu bout, Pillet is able to defeat Dumitriscu's slow attacks through his use of distance and false counter attacks to draw the end of the attack prematurely. Would you agree with that?

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfZejvonKjw[/YOUTUBE]
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0Tv5IeAgoA[/YOUTUBE]

for those of you who are interested here is the whole bout but i can definitely give my thoughts on it. i try to mostly include what makes the attack good and bad and a variety of examples of it working and not working but if i did a whole section on each the video would be at least 30 minutes long. in this short video i can barely say what i want to about the attack

my thoughts on how to pick it apart more: it requires at least a first level fake, usually a second level fake, to effectively beat it on defense. what i mean by this is fake a counterattack and pull it short; fake out, fake counterattack, pull it short, etc. pillet does a really good job of staying far enough away on defense that his opponent cant comfortably reach him but at the same time close enough to not let them safely start the acceleration. also watch how when dumi gets ready to attack pillet is very ready to step in with a blade take. watch the whole bout for a better picture of what i mean. ill try to answer more questions about it on this thread if you have them

[RITFencing]

Cool stuff. Do you think you'd be able to do a video on disrupting attacks in general? I really like how Desci did it here and I'm a big fan of false actions to do so, and I would very much enjoy the opportunity to flesh out my knowledge of it.

EDIT: D'oh, I meant Pillest, not Desci. Sorry, it's late and I'm tired.

[CyrusofChaos]

Cool stuff. Do you think you'd be able to do a video on disrupting attacks in general? I really like how Desci did it here and I'm a big fan of false actions to do so, and I would very much enjoy the opportunity to flesh out my knowledge of it.

EDIT: D'oh, I meant Pillest, not Desci. Sorry, it's late and I'm tired.

you mean a video of people i likes' defenses? interesting... maybe i could do something like that... to tell you all the truth i make these videos a long time before i actually release them. the next one will be a video on lontays attacks and the one after that will be on lapkes's attacks. i wait to release them for a few reasons: i like your feedback and i try to add it to the videos. there is also a cool feature on youtube that lets me see what parts of videos people are watching and skipping the most, so it helps me see what you like and edit the videos accordingly. i also like to build a little anticipation for them although its mostly the first two reasons. i am actually on my fourth draft of the lontay video right now, and the third one of the lapkes video. i am sure it will be somewhere in the 6th or 7th draft by the time i actually release them

i am actually intrigued by the idea of doing a video on general defense. can people submit a few ideas about whose defense they want me to look at? i will start compiling footage when i have time, although i wouldnt release it for a few weeks...

[RITFencing]

i am actually intrigued by the idea of doing a video on general defense. can people submit a few ideas about whose defense they want me to look at? i will start compiling footage when i have time, although i wouldnt release it for a few weeks...

Defense is such a wide category that I think it might be better served by releasing multiple videos on different subtopics. As I mentioned, I'm really interested in seeing examples of elite level fencers disrupting opponents attacks. What I mean by this is using distance, false and real actions, information from previous touches and anything else they need to A) prevent an attacker from attaining a situation where they can successfully finish their attack B) cause an attacker to break off their attack and take over or C) create a false situation for the attacker to believe they should finish too early.

So, basically, ways that the defenders make attackers A) finish too late or not at all, B) just stop their attack entirely or C) finish too early. What happens next is also very interesting but I think to go in depth on one facet of this will easily be enough for one video.

As an aside, what you said about Pillet's distance being too far away for Dumitriscu to finish but too close for him to accelerate safely really opened my eyes. I have previous been teaching my sabre students to treat the distance in stages on defense, to cause the attacker to make mistakes as they close into the "danger zone," and if unsuccessful to bail out and make the opponent approach again from long distance. It seems so obvious now that while they should not be within the opponent's one tempo distance the whole time, backing up too far takes way too much pressure off of the opponent and allows far fewer chances to mess up their attack. I'm slapping myself for not realizing it sooner, but thank you.

EDIT: Oh, one other thing I'd like to see examples of is defenders creating openings in an attack to land an AiP or counter attack. There were some really good examples in your PiL video and I would be very interested in seeing other situations like that.

[oso97]

Thanks again Cyrus. I'm contemplating putting some homework assignments together for my students using your videos.

[CyrusofChaos]

EDIT: Oh, one other thing I'd like to see examples of is defenders creating openings in an attack to land an AiP or counter attack. There were some really good examples in your PiL video and I would be very interested in seeing other situations like that.

you mean more along the lines of a lopez video that i did before? setting up counterattacks? because of the time constraints i have basically two options when i am making videos: i can make a video about a specific fencers entire defense and break it down or i can pick a specific thing in defense (like point in line) and focus on a lot of people but i cant do both. which would you like and on which fencer specifically? i will think about it more and, as usual, take your suggestions into account

[RITFencing]

You know, I had forgotten about the specifics of the Lopez video; there were a lot of great examples in there of the counter attacks and their setup.

I guess what I want in videos aren't so much specific fencers* but concepts (like slow attacks, point in line, counter attacks, whatever.) You have a much greater knowledge of the current high level sabre fencers than I do, and so far you have done an excellent job of picking fencers to illustrate your points. I think that even when, as in the Lopez video, you may have been trying to do a fencer profile but what I saw was a really great breakdown on world class counter attacks, both in their setup and execution. That's the sort of thing I'm really interested in seeing, and I think can be of tremendous benefit to the fencing community as a whole.

* Don't get me wrong here; I think profiles of high level fencers are great and of use in more ways than one; showing how they take strengths and weaknesses and build games around them, how think, similarities and differences between them... there are a bunch of cool things you could do, it's just that right now I'm interested in kind of zooming in on specific actions and tactics at the world level.

[KShan5[PrFC]]

Honestly, if you're going to do a breakdown of "defense" and focus on just one fencer, I'd suggest Tim Morehouse. He has a really strong defense, and you have quite a few videos to chose from.

[whtouche]

Honestly, if you're going to do a breakdown of "defense" and focus on just one fencer, I'd suggest Tim Morehouse. He has a really strong defense, and you have quite a few videos to chose from.

Truth.

[CyrusofChaos]

Honestly, if you're going to do a breakdown of "defense" and focus on just one fencer, I'd suggest Tim Morehouse. He has a really strong defense, and you have quite a few videos to chose from.

i really doubt he would want to be analyzed, as we asked him if he would do a commentary on one of his own videos to let people know what he was thinking and he turned it down. i dont think he would be very into the idea of me taking apart his attack. although if that is what you all want i could ask him... wanna suggest something else just in case?

[KShan5[PrFC]]

Honestly, I think the work you're doing is awesome, and you know a lot more about who is good at what on the international level than I do. The only reason I mentioned it was that the first thing I thought of when I read this:

you mean more along the lines of a lopez video that i did before? setting up counterattacks? because of the time constraints i have basically two options when i am making videos: i can make a video about a specific fencers entire defense and break it down or i can pick a specific thing in defense (like point in line) and focus on a lot of people but i cant do both. which would you like and on which fencer specifically? i will think about it more and, as usual, take your suggestions into account

was Tim Morehouse's defense. If that's not a viable option that just keep on making videos because they've been great so far.

[Relampago]

I think a video on Aliaksandr Buikevich (perhaps his defense) would be interesting and useful.

Buikevich stands 6'3" according to his FIE profile, only a shade less than world #1 Nicolas Limbach's 6'4", and although they are both tall and lanky, they employ vastly different styles.

Buikevich looks for counter-actions that are deceptively simple and yet stunningly effective. He defeated Limbach, who is more of an attacker, in the Olympics by a narrow margin, having earlier beaten him 15-8 at the 2008 Euro Championships. Buikevich also defeated Yakimenko (likewise an ostensibly big "attacker") in the Olympics before falling to Covaliu.

If you used footage of Buikevich, interspersed with Tarantino's implosion against Ben Igoe at Dallas 2009, you'd have a solid video about disrupting powerful attacks. Consider it maybe?

[CyrusofChaos]

If you used footage of Buikevich, interspersed with Tarantino's implosion against Ben Igoe at Dallas 2009, you'd have a solid video about disrupting powerful attacks. Consider it maybe?

i was actually already asked to do this type of video. i am not going to do a video of ben but i will do one of buikevich eventually although the queue for videos that people want me to do is quite long right now so it may be a little while, but i will get it done :P buikevich happens to be one of my favorites