Fencing glove color

[Fiat Slug]

Are there any rules on the color of the fencing glove? Someone remarked to me that my foil glove might be illegal as the cuff isn't all white. I then looked around the room and noticed that everyone else's cuff is white. I searched the USFA rule book and was not able to find any reference to the color of the cuff. Is/was there a rule govering the color of the cuff?

BTW, I wear an Armor Two so the cuff is blue on the backside.

[kalivor]

The rules:

Fencers’ clothing must be made of sufficiently robust material
and be clean and in good condition.

Fencers’ clothing may be of different colours, apart from black.

There is no special mention regarding the colour of the glove. You should be fine with blue, so long as it's clean.

[Morale Officer]

There is no special mention regarding the colour of the glove. You should be fine with blue, so long as it's clean.

^^is correct, however I wore my old Santelli glove for probably the first half of the season last year (before the electrical tape couldn't cover the holes anymore...well, that and the thumb finally came off completely...) and no one said anything about it (either in practice or competition). I don't think I had ever washed it, so it as pretty darn stained and dirty.

[erooMynohtnA]

so long as it's clean...

...And even if it's not.

[oiuyt]

...And even if it's not.

m.25.3.

Not commonly enforced, although there are certainly at least a few national-level referees who will quite gleefully tell you about times when they have penalized fencers for violations.

-B

[SJCFU#2]

Someone remarked to me that my foil glove might be illegal as the cuff isn't all white.

Next time some says something like that to you, politely suggest they try reading an up-to-date copy of the rules - m.25.3 might prove enlightening (in particular the note near the top of page 55).

[cbcarey]

So, I would have to worry about this one?

http://shop.fencing.net/product_p/fwf-24101.htm

[oiuyt]

So, I would have to worry about this one?

Go read the note that SJCFU referenced and then come back and tell us the answer.

-B

[Purple Fencer]

Are there any rules on the color of the fencing glove? Someone remarked to me that my foil glove might be illegal as the cuff isn't all white. I then looked around the room and noticed that everyone else's cuff is white. I searched the USFA rule book and was not able to find any reference to the color of the cuff. Is/was there a rule govering the color of the cuff?

BTW, I wear an Armor Two so the cuff is blue on the backside.

YAY!! You wear one of mine!

Nope...no color rules...if there had been, I would've changed the color layout. The only glove-specific rules are that the cuff must cover half the forearm, and it may be padded.

Given than I've seen my glove at all levels of domestic competition -- including nationals (vet 40 WF winner this year, in one case) -- and that I usually bounce all of my ideas off of Dan DeChaine, you're good.

Don't let a ref pull a rule out of his ass just because he doesn't like what he sees and doesn't understand it.

[cbcarey]

Ok, I have read what SJCFU referenced and am now back to report. Here is the section:

m.25.3
Characteristics of the clothing.
Fencers‘ clothing must be made of sufficiently robust material and be clean and in good condition. The material from which the equipment is made must not have a surface which is smooth enough to cause the point or the opponent‘s touch to glance off (cf. m.30). Clothing must be made entirely in cloth able to resist a pressure of 800 Newtons. Very particular attention must be paid to the way the seams under the armpits, if there are any, are made. An under- garment consisting of a protective under-plastron covering the vital upper areas of the body (following the design given in Appendix A to these Rules, ‗Safety norms for manufacturers‘) resistant to 800 Newtons is also mandatory.

Fencers‘ clothing may be of different colors, apart from black.

Note: At USFA local, divisional, and sectional competitions, there are no restrictions on colors or decorations on uniforms, providing that the uniforms still comply with all other requirements.

National clothing shall be unique.

Logos worn on the national clothing must be approved by the FIE Executive Committee at least 30 days before it is used for the first time in an official FIE competition; they are then published on the FIE Website.

The designs of national colors (logos) are compulsory and must be identical on both legs of the athletes, optional on the arm(s), for the following events:
i) World Championships and World Junior and Cadet Championships, every bout, in the pools, in the direct elimination and in team matches;
ii) Individual senior World Cup competitions, all direct elimination bouts from the 64 onwards;
iii) World Cup team competitions, all bouts in every match.

They must be identical for all the fencers of a same Federation for the above competitions i and iii.

The name of the fencer must be displayed on the back of the jacket with the abbreviation of the national federation below it, at the level of the shoulder blades. They must be printed directly on the jacket or on a cloth carefully sewn on the jacket. The letters must be in dark blue, in capitals, between 8 cm and 10 cm high, and

I typically do not resort to the rule book because I am generally told to reference current interpretation rather than the text of the rule. The rules seem purposefully non-specific. Like trying to get answers from a politician. Whatever they say, its more useful to find out what they do.

Chapter 2 is "Equipment and Clothing",
m.25.3 is about "Characteristics of clothing". The details refer to clothing, national clothing, uniforms, and equipment. There are no definitions of these terms. The closest you get is where in m.25 it refers to national clothing as including socks, breeches, jacket, and conductive jacket.

Saying something includes a list of items does not require that list exclude all other items. The USFA includes those who fence foil and epee. That doesn't mean it excludes all other fencers.

So gloves either are or are not part of "clothing", which may be of different colors, apart from black

If gloves are clothing, then so might anything else a fencer wears. T-shirts and underwear are equally not mentioned along with gloves. If gloves are clothing, then gloves may not be black.

This rule would also forbid the adidas line of fencing jackets and knickers with the black stripes, as clothing must not be black. Unless "Fencer's clothing may be of different colors, apart from black" is designed to represent the bulk of the item, rather than any minor colored area. In which case, maybe the glove is also ok, as only part of it is black.

Hmm....m.25 also pretty clearly states that clothing must be 800 Newton and that socks are national clothing therefore....socks must be 800N?

Reading the rules clarified nothing for me.

[Purple Fencer]

Reading the rules clarified nothing for me.

Did you read the USFA specific note that SJCFU#2 referenced?? There are others in there...like 800N is not required for US domestic events.

Remember that the rulebook is written for FIE tourneys.

This rule would also forbid the adidas line of fencing jackets and knickers with the black stripes, as clothing must not be black. Unless "Fencer's clothing may be of different colors, apart from black" is designed to represent the bulk of the item, rather than any minor colored area. In which case, maybe the glove is also ok, as only part of it is black.

Clothing refers to the jacket and the knickers...the PROTECTIVE clothing(yes, socks are protective to a degree, but they're really referring to clothing that protects the vital areas of the body, i.e. where the major organs and blood vessels are)...you're reading too much into it.

The Adidas stripes are not an issue regarding the color black....if that were the case, masks wouldn't be black. It refers to the BODY of the uniforms (typically the jacket). Black is not allowed because traditionally, only maestros were allowed to wear black.

[quote]Hmm....m.25 also pretty clearly states that clothing must be 800 Newton and that socks are national clothing therefore....socks must be 800N?

Again....it;s talking about the jacket and knickers....not the socks.

[Purple Fencer]

So, I would have to worry about this one?

http://shop.fencing.net/product_p/fwf-24101.htm

It's not going to be a problem....red the glove-specific rules....there are only about 2 of them (which I references already).

You could sew a soccer sock to a golf glove and it'd be legal....not GOOD, but legal.

[Fiat Slug]

YAY!! You wear one of mine!

Yes, I just bought my second one. My thumb wore through the two layers of material in my first one. I have to say that I'm extremely happy with the way the glove fits so I would've been bummed if I can't wear it.

The guy who told me that he thought my glove was illegal did it in a very pleasant way and did not affect my performance that day. Some refs can say or do things in such a way to really mess up your mindset for the rest of the day. This guy did not and I consider that refreshing.

[Purple Fencer]

The guy who told me that he thought my glove was illegal did it in a very pleasant way and did not affect my performance that day. Some refs can say or do things in such a way to really mess up your mindset for the rest of the day. This guy did not and I consider that refreshing.

He still needs to know and understand the rules better....no vendor worth their salt is going to put out gear that's illegal for competition.

[cbcarey]

You could sew a soccer sock to a golf glove and it'd be legal....not GOOD, but legal.

Thanks Purple. My backup plan was to use an old sock, now I know that works too! ;-)

[Purple Fencer]

Thanks Purple. My backup plan was to use an old sock, now I know that works too! ;-)

Just make sure:

1) you have the glove rules with you ('cause some people won't believe it)
2) Do the job right....meaning the sewed connection between the glove and the cuff is tight enough to not leave holes....because even if a glove is jerry-rigged, if the person inspecting if sees a catching-the-point hazard, it CAN be ruled illegal, which would be proper

[Inquartata]

Bah, you are all forgetting the rules of taste! Colored gloves violate those in the worst way!

There's a foilist in my Division who wears a bright red glove. It's his only colored piece of equipment. I think that the rest of his Santa Claus suit is just on back order or something.

[Fiat Slug]

[QUOTE=Inquartata;823242]Bah, you are all forgetting the rules of taste! Colored gloves violate those in the worst way!
QUOTE]

Since the rule book doesn't mention taste, I would guess that it's legal to even tiedie the uniform.

[EldRick]

...no vendor worth their salt is going to put out gear that's illegal for competition.

We all wish that this was true. However, this statement overlooks the various tips and grips and clothing sold by "reputable" vendors which clearly violate various rules and regs. or don't pass testing. Gardere and Spanish grips, screwless tips, lames that don't cover all of target, black fencing pants, "FIE" garb that doesn't pass penetration testing, all come to mind as counterexamples....

So I guess there must be quite a few vendors that aren't worth their salt, whatever that means...

[Purple Fencer]

We all wish that this was true. However, this statement overlooks the various tips and grips and clothing sold by "reputable" vendors which clearly violate various rules and regs. or don't pass testing. Gardere and Spanish grips, screwless tips, lames that don't cover all of target, black fencing pants, "FIE" garb that doesn't pass penetration testing, all come to mind as counterexamples....

So I guess there must be quite a few vendors that aren't worth their salt, whatever that means...

You're probably right...let me amend that to say that I would never put out gear illegal for comp (not knowingly, at least)