WW2 and Hiroshima - split from DP thread.

[I_luv_saber]

Well done, Gav.

[Hauptman]

Let's take a look at the statement and decompose it:

"it just saddens me that so many people have to die when the conflict is between governments and not civilians."

"it just saddens me..."

Used to terminate a conversation or argument by injecting emotions when a participant cant get anywhere using logic or rational thought.


"it just saddens me that so many people have to die..."

Well, duh. Who likes to see people die? It's an obvious statement. It was used to gain the moral high ground. "I'm sad, so I have emotions. Why aren't you sad too? You must be mean and have no soul."

Yes, I know it was intended. Silly liberal.

I see why Slim is having so much trouble with this emotional statement; it's comes from a lack of empathy. Empathy would require the ability to see something from someone else's perspective, and actually care.

[Inquartata]

Jeff has said pretty eloquently all that I would have.That there were reasons X, Y and Z other than the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki for the Japanese "war party" finally capitulating says absolutely nothing about whether we were "justified" in using the atomic bomb. For them to do so, we would have to have known about X, Y an Z and their effects on the thinking of the Imperial government. It would have required mind-reading, or at least much better high-level intelligence than we had. Absent proof of this we can only accept the Truman Administration's statements on its reasons and justifications for taking the steps they did. If they thought they had to do it, even if in fact they didn't, they did...

[Purple Fencer]

It's a fallacy to think that a warning would've worked...the Japanese were getting the bloody hell bombed out of them already...simply saying "we've got a really BIG bomb and we're prepared to use it" doesn't have much effect in that case, especially since -- ignoring Trinity -- there had never been such a bomb used anywhere, let alone in a war zone.

Now comes Hiroshima....one bomb and bye bye city. But let's face it, even given the huge destruction, it was kinda hard to believe...even the Tallboy and Grand Slam bomb didn't have that kind of power. The tendency would be to not believe it and blow it off as some sort of fluke.


Then comes Nagasaki....oh crap...2 monster bombs within a week....what if the Americans unleash a bunch of these???

Surrender starts looking pretty good right then.

[Slim]

I see why Slim is having so much trouble with this emotional statement; it's comes from a lack of empathy. Empathy would require the ability to see something from someone else's perspective, and actually care.

Yes, all us non-liberals are a cold, mean spirited lot.

[Hauptman]

Yes, all us non-liberals are a cold, mean spirited lot.

lol.... I'm not talking about "non-liberals"... I'm talking about you!

...absolutely clueless...

[davesaint]

A couple of things to remember about the decision to bomb Japan. First, the Nuclear Weapons were very new technology, and there was a question of reliability. There was a concern that if they tested a weapon in front of Japanese observers and it didn't go off, then they would have been stuck slugging it out with Japan for likely at least another year or 2. Also, the supply of Uranium and Plutonium was very limited. Other than the 2 bombs, there were no more weapons left in the US arsenal, and the prospect for building more was at least 6 months off.

Second, I really don't think that Truman was itching to drop the bomb on Japan. He looked at it as the lesser of 2 evils in comparison to a sea-borne invasion. You have to remember the recent campaigns of Okinawa and Iwo Jima in which the Japanese fought with such fanaticism that the casualties of an invasion of the Home Islands would have been a blood bath. Also, there were roughly 30k of Japanese civilians that chose to commit suicide on Okinawa rather than surrender to the US Forces. Could you imagine the death toll on the Home Islands? City fighting in Japan would have made combat in Berlin look like a pillow fight in comparison.

Dave