Our dear leader going after the kids

[I_luv_saber]

The name "Obama"...

[migopod]

I watched the speech live streamed off the Whitehouse site, and I thought it was quite nice actually.

[Purple Fencer]

I watched the speech live streamed off the Whitehouse site, and I thought it was quite nice actually.

I read the text...didn't watch the speech. Doesn't surprise me that he delivered well...he's definitely the best orator since MLK...all the passion without the stridency of a Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton.

[fencerchica]

I appreciated the technical detail of the speech. It's kind of ironic though; Clinton's "stone tablets" of healthcare reform flopped, so Obama wanted to have Congress hammer this out a little more independently. But then he gets attacked for being too vague, so now he's got to get down into the weeds with details anyway, which fortunately is something he's skilled at. It also made for a good contrast with Rep. Boustany's (aka Medical Malpractice Boy) rebuttal and its comparative lack of technical depth.

[pigeonmeister]

The obligatory 'Hitler finds out Obama will address school children' video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adiLJxayfg8

[Purple Fencer]

The obligatory 'Hitler finds out Obama will address school children' video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adiLJxayfg8

BRILLIANT!!! A masterful work of the inner workings of the current GOP "leadership!"
(but who let Glen Beck in here??)

What movie is this from?? Looks like near the end of the war, from the way 'Dolph is ranting.

[pigeonmeister]

BRILLIANT!!! A masterful work of the inner workings of the current GOP "leadership!"
(but who let Glen Beck in here??)

What movie is this from?? Looks like near the end of the war, from the way 'Dolph is ranting.

It's from 'Downfall'. A truly outstanding German film tracing the last few days of Hitler's life, and that of his inner circle, in the 'bunker'. You should definitely check it out- a film that could only really be made by Germans.

There are loads of spoof using this scene. e.g 'Hitler finds out Michael Jackson is dead'; 'Hitler finds out Sarah Palin has resigned'; Hitler finds out there are no WMD in Iraq'. It's a cult youtube thing and most of them are pretty funny.

[yearsofwisdom]

hes just a conservative.... hes merely trying to let kids work harder... stop being afriad.

[Bayou Bum]

It also made for a good contrast with Rep. Boustany's (aka Medical Malpractice Boy) rebuttal and its comparative lack of technical depth.

See what happens when you combine the Government with Health Care!

[Purple Fencer]

See what happens when you combine the Government with Health Care!

You mean like Medicaid, Medical, Vet's Admin, and the care members of CONGRESS already get?

[Bayou Bum]

You mean like Medicaid, Medical, Vet's Admin, and the care members of CONGRESS already get?

I really hope you aren't implying that Medicaid, Medicare, and the VA are examples of how well the government can provide health care. I personally don't know what the members of Congress get, but I also don't hear any of them suggesting everyone be on the same plan as them, and certainly not any of them wishing to be on the plan they are proposing for everyone else but them.

Medicare is broke so lets fix it by adding more people to it. The VA gives you a copy of "Your Choices, Your Life" and encourage you to evaluate whether or not your life is still worth living.

And for the record, without a proof of citizenship requirement, which doesn't exist in Obama's plan, illegal immigrants would be covered. The Congressional Research Service found that the health care bill does not restrict illegal immigrants from receiving health care coverage.

"The Congressional Research Service has indicated that indeed the bills that are before Congress would include illegal aliens"

WOW, OBAMA LIED!!!

[jeff]

Actually, I just saw on the news tonight the specific clause in the House bill that showed that illegal immigrants were excluded. Right there in black and white in the bill.

BTW, does everybody know that in border states, illegal immigrants are already covered by the federal government for emergency care, and in non-border states we all pick up the tab because practitioners provide care for 'free' - and then have to pass the costs on to the rest of us?

[erooMynohtnA]

The VA gives you a copy of "Your Choices, Your Life" and encourage you to evaluate whether or not your life is still worth living

Source? I volunteer at, receive primary care from, and underwent surgery in a VA hospital. I have heard of no such thing.

My care at the VA is also the sole reason I am on board with universal health care.

[I_luv_saber]

The obligatory 'Hitler finds out Obama will address school children' video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adiLJxayfg8

Funniest way to bring in Godwin's law EVER! I owe you rep next time I'm able.

(And yes, Downfall is an amazing movie)

[Bayou Bum]

Actually, I just saw on the news tonight the specific clause in the House bill that showed that illegal immigrants were excluded. Right there in black and white in the bill.

BTW, does everybody know that in border states, illegal immigrants are already covered by the federal government for emergency care, and in non-border states we all pick up the tab because practitioners provide care for 'free' - and then have to pass the costs on to the rest of us?

So why the need for government health care if we are already providing it for free? What good is it to say illegal immigrants are excluded if health care providers cannot verify legal status? That is the problem with all of Obama's double talk. At first he said you won't lose your existing coverage, now he says you won't have to lose it, but he totally ignores the fact that under his plan you will lose it. And for death panels, he likes to claim that the government panel won't make the decision to put you to death, but ignores the fact that the same panel will effectively do the same by not authorizing you to get treatment.

[Bayou Bum]

Source? I volunteer at, receive primary care from, and underwent surgery in a VA hospital. I have heard of no such thing.

My care at the VA is also the sole reason I am on board with universal health care.

I first heard about it from those right wing wackos at CBS News. It was also covered in the WSJ and on Fox. It was implemented under Clinton, removed under Bush, and reinstated under Obama.

[Slim]

Actually, I just saw on the news tonight the specific clause in the House bill that showed that illegal immigrants were excluded. Right there in black and white in the bill.

BTW, does everybody know that in border states, illegal immigrants are already covered by the federal government for emergency care, and in non-border states we all pick up the tab because practitioners provide care for 'free' - and then have to pass the costs on to the rest of us?

1. Border states - Covered by the federal government
2. Non Border states - We all pickup the tab

Who do you think the federal government passes the costs to? Duh.

[lindajdunn]

I really hope you aren't implying that Medicaid, Medicare, and the VA are examples of how well the government can provide health care. I personally don't know what the members of Congress get, but I also don't hear any of them suggesting everyone be on the same plan as them, and certainly not any of them wishing to be on the plan they are proposing for everyone else but them.

Actually, the government method of distributing health care has been mentioned more than a few times as a potential model for distributing health insurance. It's a smogarsboard of plans from which employees (and congresscritters) can choose what best suits their needs. They also have access to medical savings plans. It's been highly efficient at meeting the diverse needs of federal employees regardless of where they reside.

[jeff]

So why the need for government health care if we are already providing it for free? What good is it to say illegal immigrants are excluded if health care providers cannot verify legal status? That is the problem with all of Obama's double talk. At first he said you won't lose your existing coverage, now he says you won't have to lose it, but he totally ignores the fact that under his plan you will lose it. And for death panels, he likes to claim that the government panel won't make the decision to put you to death, but ignores the fact that the same panel will effectively do the same by not authorizing you to get treatment.

You've made some mistakes and some complete falsehoods.

We're not providing non-emergency healthcare to illegals for free, and only free emergency healthcare in border-state hospitals and clinics. Why? Because there was a lot of burden placed on providers in those states and they had to eat the costs. Doctors, labs, clinics, hospitals had to provide emergency services for free - and of course pass the costs on to you or simply lose money. Do you like that alternative?

And once the immigrant get discharged from the hospital, they get zip. Example: diabetic comes into ER in shock, gets patched up, loses a foot for amputation: then put out on the street and it's their problem to find ongoing coverage for PT and wound treatment, let alone ongoing treatment for their diabetes. You can argue whether that's right or wrong, but that's not "we're providing free healthcare". I think you should understand that already.

Now onto the complete falsehoods.

At no point does Obama say you have to lose your current health insurance coverage. He has said the exact opposite, and the language in the various bills says the same thing.

The "death panels" thing is a complete lie - repeated over and over. What that is about is counseling for end of life treatment options so families and patients can express their intent and understand their options, set up a living will, assign legal and medical proxies who can express the patient's will if he/she isn't capable of communicating. It has nothing to do with funding treatment. The proposal is to fund providers so they're not doing it for free, and came originally from a Republican. Yesterday I listened to the doctor who set up the original program this was modeled on, and he's quite offended that people have dishonestly distorted this into a fear tactic.

[jeff]

1. Border states - Covered by the federal government
2. Non Border states - We all pickup the tab

Who do you think the federal government passes the costs to? Duh.

As I just explained to BB, it's emergency only. After that, sayonara. And in non-border states, it's really a mandatory "you must do this for free for whoever walks into your ER" money loser. NOT imposed by the federal government BTW, they have nothing to do with it there.

Look, I have no problem arguing that illegal aliens should get no coverage, or that the bill should be sent to their government if they themselves don't have the money to cover it. What I do have a problem with is people acting like it's Obama's fault when it's been the way it is for years and years - and it's broken.