Our dear leader going after the kids

[migopod]

BTW, migopod, Obama himself now appears to be "listening to Cheney" on certain subjects, such as the value of "enhanced interrogation techniques". What are we to make of that?

One could make of it that he is indeed a person and can make bad decisions.

Torture is and should remain illegal, no matter who's in power. Bush and Cheney should be tried for authorizing torture, and if Obama continues the policy I would advocate the same due processes for him as well.

[thereom4]

If he were seen brushing his teeth, it would be described as an extreme left-wing political statement about oral hygiene and Glen Beck would have to denounce all tooth-brushing and flossing related treasonous acts.

edit: Also roving bands of gun-totin' teabaggers would start harassing dentists' offices within minutes.

[Purple Fencer]

Well, yeah, those people are stupid. MY problem with Obama is that he's a Muslim!

PLEASE tell me that's sarcasm....

[keith]

PLEASE tell me that's sarcasm....

Of course everyone knows he's a pastafarian.

[Purple Fencer]

Of course everyone knows he's a pastafarian.

Spaghetti cooked by Bob Marley??

[Inquartata]

You must be kidding.... because he hasn't proved that he's NOT a socialist then it's ok to rant that he must be a socialist? Is that what you're really suggesting there?

No.

I am saying that the thesis "Obama is not a socialist" has not been proven.

If you want to work from the position that claims that he IS a socialist are unproven, that's perfectly reasonable. But to claim that because he hasn't been shown to be a socialist proves that he isn't goes too far.

And we're all participating in group-think because we find that calling him a socialist, with absolutely no evidence, to be wrong?

No. Pay attention to what I'm saying, rather than what you prefer to think I'm saying because it enables your outrage better.

I'm saying...you are participating in groupthink if you are saying "He's not a socialist". Because we just don't know what he believes in his heart, as opposed to what he says with his mouth. Neither thesis---"He's a socialist" or "He's not a socialist"---can be proven. It's as illogical to shout the one as the other.

[erooMynohtnA]

Spaghetti cooked by Bob Marley??

No the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster

[Fechter1]

No.

I am saying that the thesis "Obama is not a socialist" has not been proven.

If you want to work from the position that claims that he IS a socialist are unproven, that's perfectly reasonable. But to claim that because he hasn't been shown to be a socialist proves that he isn't goes too far.

Right, but when the charge of Obama being a socialist is made, the burden of proof is on those making the charge. Hence, the statement "Obama is not a socialist" is the default position and must be DISproven (you know, kinda like 'Innocent until proven guilty').

Otherwise, the thesis that you ARE a thief has the same validity as the thesis that you are NOT, with the burden of proof equally distributed. I mean, I'm not saying that you ARE, but I have no proof to the contrary, right?

[jeff]

What is being applied is an extension of the legal principle from Alice in Wonderland: Sentence first--verdict afterwards.' Now it's "Sentence first -- whether a crime has been committed yet or not"

We should do like Alice, and say to the people who fling around accusations that Obama is a socialist (as opposed to legalistic punctilio that he hasn't yet been proved to not be one ) "Who cares for you? You're nothing but a pack of cards!"

[Slim]

One could make of it that he is indeed a person and can make bad decisions.

Or good ones, as in this case.

[Slim]

i'd like to note that it was bush that nationalized great swaths of the economy via the almost $1trillion bank bailout.

Yep. Stupid, I agree.

Then the O-man did it for about the same cost, but called it a "stimulus" package. I guess that was smart though since Bush was an idiot and Obama is a god.

[jessicasimpson]

Maybe we could understand Slim's and BB's position better if we understand why they hate America so much

[TrainingDummy]

PLEASE tell me that's sarcasm....

It is! If he were a Muslim it wouldn't have affected my vote one bit, anyway.

[tchwojko]

I am utterly flabbergasted that any parent is making a fuss about a back to school speech by the president. I want my kids to be politically informed and involved. I want my kids to hear what all of their government representatives have to say, and I especially want them to listen when the representatives are speaking directly to them.

I want them to listen to what is said, and think about why it was said, and learn to make informed decisions about politics, to learn to agree and disagree based on first hand information rather than third hand sound bites.

The alternative is to promote ignorance.

[Slim]

I am utterly flabbergasted that any parent is making a fuss about a back to school speech by the president. I want my kids to be politically informed and involved. I want my kids to hear what all of their government representatives have to say, and I especially want them to listen when the representatives are speaking directly to them.

I want them to listen to what is said, and think about why it was said, and learn to make informed decisions about politics, to learn to agree and disagree based on first hand information rather than third hand sound bites.

The alternative is to promote ignorance.

So you're fine with this video being shown in school to elementary aged kids? You are ok with this message?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51kAw4OTlA0

[migopod]

Or good ones, as in this case.

Somehow I'm entirely unsurprised that you advocate torture.

Actually @Inquartata, I've yet to see a reference to your comment about Obama and his policy with respect to detainee abuse. Did he decide to continue the program, or is he just using the fruit of that particular poisoned tree?

Of course either is repugnant, but one is more likely to result in justice department investigations than the other.

[Slim]

Now this is more like it.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frNuE...eature=related

[Slim]

Somehow I'm entirely unsurprised that you advocate torture.

Because I am a mean spirited non-liberal. What do you expect? We have no heart.

[tchwojko]

So you're fine with this video being shown in school to elementary aged kids? You are ok with this message?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51kAw4OTlA0

What does that video have to do with what I wrote?

[Hauptman]

No.

I am saying that the thesis "Obama is not a socialist" has not been proven.

If you want to work from the position that claims that he IS a socialist are unproven, that's perfectly reasonable. But to claim that because he hasn't been shown to be a socialist proves that he isn't goes too far.




No. Pay attention to what I'm saying, rather than what you prefer to think I'm saying because it enables your outrage better.

I'm saying...you are participating in groupthink if you are saying "He's not a socialist". Because we just don't know what he believes in his heart, as opposed to what he says with his mouth. Neither thesis---"He's a socialist" or "He's not a socialist"---can be proven. It's as illogical to shout the one as the other.

How about just the simple fact that he SAYS that he's not a socialist, and hasn't behaved in anyway that RESEMBLES a socialist (at least not compared to any other president in the last hundred years).

And my point is that you might as well say he's a space alien based on the logical approach you are taking, while there is obvious reason to believe he is not a socialist.

They are not in anyway equivalent positions, unless you're leaning towards the "but we can't really prove anything" nonsense. Weak, Inq.... very weak.