Our dear leader going after the kids

[Slim]

For the record, I think it's icky too. I don't think we should be singing songs praising our politicians, no matter what they espouse.

Mitigating factors - it doesn't have anything to do with Obama, as you observed, and it seems to have been part of Black History month rather than a cult of personality. My take is that it's one thing for kids to be taught something like "it's great that our country has progressed to the point where a black guy can be elected president", but quite another to have a song praising any individual.

I do think it's deliberately leveraged by the conservative media, who I think want to trickle unpleasant images to the public on a steady basis. This event was recorded in February and IMO was saved for a moment when there was nothing negative in the news to make a fuss over. I could be excessively cynical, but I remain suspicious that this is part of a stream of unflattering items scheduled to be released as soon as the last one wears off.

Did you catch the "Equal work for equal pay" line?

Mitigating circumstances? Nothing to do with Obama? Are you serious?

You also missed/ignored/dont care that this was a PUBLIC school.

Bahahahhahha. Jeff, you're a liberal apologist.

Watch out for the VRWC. It's coming for ya.

[migopod]

An ode to George Washington.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbRom1Rz8OA[/youtube]

[lindajdunn]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-y2QghS2gU

The above video is offered for balance.

[Purple Fencer]

If this was a public school, I'd be pissed. But it wasn't, so I really dont care.

What's the diff?

[migopod]

What's the diff?

If you've never seen Jesus Camp (and I highly recommend it), the bulk of it documents a very extreme Pentacostal summer camp, which is totally an indoctrination center, but it's a private, religious institution so it's expected to be an indoctrination center for a very specific worldview. If that had been happening at a public school, it would have been at the very least in insane violation of the Establishment Clause of the 1st amendment, plus a very plausable case could be made that it's state sponsored political indoctrination to boot.

From what I've heard in quotes from the school district that did the Obama song, it was part of a larger program for Black History Month and the lyrics were sent home to parents in advance of the performance and received no objections. Out of context, creepy. In context, not as creepy, but I'd prefer if people making these decisions were more aware of how instantly the fringey-right jumps on and politicizes any little thing lately. Of course since this happend in February, the political climate was a little less heated and the crazies didn't really turn out in force until August.

[I_luv_saber]

Honestly, sounds a little bit like unfairly downplaying one situation while damning another. If we're going to boo the righty extremists, let's do the same to the left as well.

They're both nuts, both situations are BS.

(btw, even in context - still creepy)

[jeff]

Mitigating circumstances? Nothing to do with Obama? Are you serious?

The mitigating factor is that it was Black History Month, when people can be expected to make approving sounds about racial progress. "Nothing to do with Obama" meant "Obama and his staff didn't set it up or encourage it", which is just what you said in your post bringing the subject up.

You also missed/ignored/dont care that this was a PUBLIC school.

Did you miss the point that I said it was icky?

Bahahahhahha. Jeff, you're a liberal apologist.

Watch out for the VRWC. It's coming for ya.

I had to Google "VRWC" to see what you were talking about. I guess I'm just not paranoid enough.

You don't think there's a campaign to discredit Obama? I would think that obvious, just from the evidence of some people on this board alone. What with the loony accusations about Obama not being a natural born citizen, Socialist, Fascist, Muslim secret agent it's quite obvious there's such a campaign.

[phillipmj]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-y2QghS2gU

The above video is offered for balance.

The Praise-be-to-Obama clip was disturbing, but the Bush Blow-up Doll for Tiny Tots was the creepiest thing I've seen in quite a while.

ewwwww.

[migopod]

Honestly, sounds a little bit like unfairly downplaying one situation while damning another. If we're going to boo the righty extremists, let's do the same to the left as well.

They're both nuts, both situations are BS.

(btw, even in context - still creepy)

I'm not sure you're replying to me specifically, but I feel the inexplicable need to clarify. I'm not damning the Jesus Camp excerpt. In fact if you do watch the whole documentary (everybody should, it's really well done) the Bush cut-out scene is actually way less creepy than some of the other scenes. The Kids On Fire summer camp is 100% within their rights to do whatever indoctrination they want. It's purely a private, religious function unsubsidized by tax dollars and completely covered by the Free Exercise clause. It WOULD be creepy and unconstitutional for various reasons if it were a public school activity, but it's not, so it's just a bit creepy.

I also don't think the Obama song business was that bad in the context of a part of a larger program on Black History Month. Given the current political climate it would be very unwise, and I'm not generally a huge fan of the praise-the-leader "Chairman Mao is Dearer to Us Than Our Parents" sort of thing, but it was cleared with the kids parents in advance with no objections at the time, so in that context I'll defer to parental choice on that one.

One interesting thing with the Obama song is that when Fox showed the clip the parents were more angered that Fox failed to obtain releases to show their children on TV than they were about the song.

[I_luv_saber]

I'm not sure you're replying to me specifically, but I feel the inexplicable need to clarify. I'm not damning the Jesus Camp excerpt. In fact if you do watch the whole documentary (everybody should, it's really well done) the Bush cut-out scene is actually way less creepy than some of the other scenes. The Kids On Fire summer camp is 100% within their rights to do whatever indoctrination they want. It's purely a private, religious function unsubsidized by tax dollars and completely covered by the Free Exercise clause. It WOULD be creepy and unconstitutional for various reasons if it were a public school activity, but it's not, so it's just a bit creepy.

Fair enough.

I also don't think the Obama song business was that bad in the context of a part of a larger program on Black History Month. Given the current political climate it would be very unwise, and I'm not generally a huge fan of the praise-the-leader "Chairman Mao is Dearer to Us Than Our Parents" sort of thing, but it was cleared with the kids parents in advance with no objections at the time, so in that context I'll defer to parental choice on that one.

It was creepy enough that I daresay it doesn't belong in a classroom either way. I mean, in context it does certainly make it less insidious, but the idea itself is still just as creepy to me...

One interesting thing with the Obama song is that when Fox showed the clip the parents were more angered that Fox failed to obtain releases to show their children on TV than they were about the song.

Shocking

[Capt. Slo-mo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxdt_f0hwUg

If this was a public school, I'd be pissed. But it wasn't, so I really dont care.

So, you have no problem with childhood "indoctrination" per se...just as long as it takes place outside of public schools?

How 'bout a public event held outdoors where scores of youngsters are rounded up to sing the praises of the Bush Administration's laudable response to the Katrina disaster?

[Bayou Bum]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxdt_f0hwUg

So, you have no problem with childhood "indoctrination" per se...just as long as it takes place outside of public schools?

How 'bout a public event held outdoors where scores of youngsters are rounded up to sing the praises of the Bush Administration's laudable response to the Katrina disaster?

My first reaction to your post was "who cares if it is at a private event and it does not include some message of hatred and killing others". But then I watched the link above and yes, it is creepy. Just as bad as a bunch of students of Iranian descent do the same to an image of Ahmajinidad, or what possibly occurs in some of the Islamic schools in the country. But there is a big difference between a Private school or event and a Public school or event promoting this. It is called choice. As you have mentioned in posts about education and school choice, many of the parents at that public school don't have a choice about sending their children to that school. All of those at Private Christian or Islamic schools have a choice.

[Hauptman]

My first reaction to your post was "who cares if it is at a private event and it does not include some message of hatred and killing others". But then I watched the link above and yes, it is creepy. Just as bad as a bunch of students of Iranian descent do the same to an image of Ahmajinidad, or what possibly occurs in some of the Islamic schools in the country. But there is a big difference between a Private school or event and a Public school or event promoting this. It is called choice. As you have mentioned in posts about education and school choice, many of the parents at that public school don't have a choice about sending their children to that school. All of those at Private Christian or Islamic schools have a choice.

Ok, but didn't the public school in question notify the parents, give them details of the event, and there were no parent complaints?

[chase]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMUgNg7aD8M

Hmm...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnmS_vULPxw

[Slim]

You don't think there's a campaign to discredit Obama? I would think that obvious, just from the evidence of some people on this board alone. What with the loony accusations about Obama not being a natural born citizen, Socialist, Fascist, Muslim secret agent it's quite obvious there's such a campaign.

Its politics. Do you really expect different? Or just that "your guy" should be treated different?

No, I dont believe he is being treated any different than anyone else who would have been elected.

[Hauptman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMUgNg7aD8M

Hmm...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnmS_vULPxw

First off, what does this have to do with the current conversation?

Ok, so which is it? Is Obama a follower of a radical racist Christian preacher or is he a secret Muslim? You can't really have it both ways.

Come on... when your own far-out conspiracy theories start contradicting each other, you don't think there's something missing?

But the even more important point would be that if he were a Muslim, who cares? Last time I checked, there is no religious requirement for being president.

[migopod]

First off, what does this have to do with the current conversation?

Ok, so which is it? Is Obama a follower of a radical racist Christian preacher or is he a secret Muslim? You can't really have it both ways.

Come on... when your own far-out conspiracy theories start contradicting each other, you don't think there's something missing?

But the even more important point would be that if he were a Muslim, who cares? Last time I checked, there is no religious requirement for being president.

Are you seriously seriously suggesting that no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States? That there's crazy talk!

[jeff]

Its politics. Do you really expect different? Or just that "your guy" should be treated different?

It's going to be rough-and-tumble in a partisan world, and of course people will be more tuned into affronts to their candidate. That comes with the greasy pole.

Look, GWB was widely attacked by his detractors (which includes me) as being dim, inarticulate, and reckless, plus other negatives (which IMO have been amply proved)

On the other hand, Obama has been accused of not being a "real" American (so even his being President is illegal)), accused of being a racist, Nazi, Communist, Muslim terrorist, fascist, etc. These statements have not particularly been repudiated by Republican leaders when not actively repeated, and are vigorously promoted by their proxies amongst the teabaggers, radio hosts, and Fox News. So, I do think there's a substantial difference.

Just look right here on this thread where he's accused of being both a racist Christian extremist and secret Muslim -- and (cough) likened to "Dear Leader" Kim-Jong Il.

No, I dont believe he is being treated any different than anyone else who would have been elected.

In the sense that any moderate Democrat would have been vilified, I suppose that's partially right. I don't think for one second that McCain would have been attacked as virulently.

[migopod]

It's going to be rough-and-tumble in a partisan world, and of course people will be more tuned into affronts to their candidate. That comes with the greasy pole.

Look, GWB was widely attacked by his detractors (which includes me) as being dim, inarticulate, and reckless, plus other negatives (which IMO have been amply proved)

On the other hand, Obama has been accused of not being a "real" American (so even his being President is illegal)), accused of being a racist, Nazi, Communist, Muslim terrorist, fascist, etc. These statements have not particularly been repudiated by Republican leaders when not actively repeated, and are vigorously promoted by their proxies amongst the teabaggers, radio hosts, and Fox News. So, I do think there's a substantial difference.

Just look right here on this thread where he's accused of being both a racist Christian extremist and secret Muslim -- and (cough) likened to "Dear Leader" Kim-Jong Il.



In the sense that any moderate Democrat would have been vilified, I suppose that's partially right. I don't think for one second that McCain would have been attacked as virulently.

You forgot Antichrist and Enemy of Humanity

[tchwojko]

It's going to be rough-and-tumble in a partisan world, and of course people will be more tuned into affronts to their candidate. That comes with the greasy pole.

Look, GWB was widely attacked by his detractors (which includes me) as being dim, inarticulate, and reckless, plus other negatives (which IMO have been amply proved)

One difference is who is doing the crazy attacking. Crazies on the left argued that Bush was not legitimately the President. There is some Republican leadership at various levels are promoting the conspiracy theories against Obama.