Approach to Pools?

[yearsofwisdom]

Well i just fenced in a tournament this past weekend and didn't do so well because of my terrible performance in pools. I lost every bout and was at a very low seed. But for my DEs, i destroyed kids that were seeded MUCH higher than me. For some reason i can't turn it up in pools. What are suggestions at improving at fencing in pools and how should you fence in pools? Go all out agressive or just be passive?

[TBean]

Be sure you are warmed up. I do not know what your warm-up routine is or how many bouts you fence prior to beginning a tournament but find the number that works for you. Are you doing a warm-up drill/lesson with your coach or team-mates. Do you or don't you like a lot of down-time between your warm-up bouts and when you begin fencing - again it is a matter of trial and error sometimes to find what works for you.

In my first pool bouts I try to fence smart and safe - I am neither overly aggressive nor I am passive - I am trying to learn what my opponent responds to and not give up touches in the process. Make actions not designed to hit, but elicit a response and then use that response next time to your advantage. I watch all the bouts to try and get information on the other folks in my pool and decide how I want to approach my bout with them.

Do you practice five touch bouts much? If no, that might help you some too. Giving away a touch or two (depending on the score) in a 15-touch bout is not so tragic - its a little different in a five. If you normally do 15-touch bouts for practice, try three five-touch bouts instead. It will help you to develop the strategy and tactics for that length bout.

[parrythis]

As TBean says, make sure you warm up. Include in that warm-up some strip time with an opponent - preferably someone you don't fence regularly. Practice your "high percentage" actions - those that are most likely to earn you a touch regardless of how your opponent fences. (You don't have a lot of time to scope out opponents in pools.) Remember that warming up isn't about scoring touches. It's about getting muscles and mind working together.

Once pools start, scout your opponents. Make notes (mental or physical) about each one. What do they like to do? What is working for them. What do their opponents do that is successful against them. What doesn't work on them. Formulate a strategy for each opponent so that when you step on the piste against any but your first opponent, you have a plan.

(Giving credit where credit is due - I learned most of the above at a Walt Dragonetti epee clinic. I pass it along here because it works.)

When you start pools, remind yourself (or have someone remind you) that EVERY touche counts!

[Craig]

What are suggestions at improving at fencing in pools and how should you fence in pools?

Pools are going to be a shallower tactical game. There isn't that much time to adjust your tactics and re-adjust to a change from your opponent as there is in a 15 touch bout.

The first thing that you want to do to get better in pool bouts is to fence more 5 touch bouts in practice. If your bouting partner wants a 15 touch bout, but your goal in training is the 5 touch bout, then suggest 3 5 touch bouts and focus on your goals for each of those.

Whether you want to be aggressive of passive is more to your own fencing style. You typically don't want to be "passive" even if you are being "defensive." Perhaps you meant "Should I focus more on offense or defense in my pool bouts?"

So, let me sum up:

• Fence more 5 touch bouts in practice
• Stay with your "A" game
• Work the bout to fence your preferred game

Craig

[Cookeit]

Personally, I am the other type of person.
I can be the #1 seed after pools, with like a 5-0, +23, and not even make it into the top 4. I can fence touch for touch in pool bouts but in DE's I get "lazy".

I just know in the back of my mind that it makes no difference if I win a DE 15-14 or 15-0, so why put the extra effort?

Any tips to approaching DE's?

[Peach]

Fence pool bouts in practice. I used to have difficulty with pools a few years ago, and in my club bouting I switched over to nothing but 5-touch bouts for a couple of months. It was very effective for me.

[Craig]

Any tips to approaching DE's?

Separate thread started for this topic:
Fencing DE Bouts - Tips?

[tchwojko]

There are two kinds of fencers you'll face in the pools:

(1) Opponents you've fenced before.
(2) Opponents you haven't.

For those in the first group, you should already have an idea of what kinds of things work and don't. Try doing the things that work.

For those in the second group, keep it simple, and if you're having trouble at least don't let them hit you the same way twice. Simply taking away certain kinds of hits will win a surprising number of pool bouts. This has the added benefit of bringing focus to fencing and getting ramped up for the day.

I also try to keep things relatively simple and technical during the pools. DEs become more strategic.

Disclaimer: My advice is worth what you paid for it, and your indicators may vary.

[peet]

Another small tip:

Between pool bouts, study the bout on strip, and for the fencer(s) you haven't yet fenced, take note of two things:

1. What is their best action, i.e. what do they score with a lot?
2. What are they vulnerable to, i.e. what do they get hit by a lot?

Then when it's your turn to fence them, do whatever you can to prevent #1 from happening (meaning don't give them the opportunity to do it), and try #2 to see if it also works for you.

-p

[yearsofwisdom]

Thanks, for all the great responses, hope more is coming. I definitely will try to analyze alot more and fence more 5 touch bouts in practice

[chinbeard]

Pools: Try not to lose.
DE: Really try not to lose.

[telkanuru]

No. Never, ever, try not to lose.

Always try to win.

No, they're not the same thing.

[mrbiggs]

Practice winning the easy touches. Those few touches you lose to the easier fencers in your pool where you know you could have won it if you had done the action correctly or been thinking can really change pool results. This means both a different mental approach to pool bouts as well as an area to concentrate on during practice.

[tbryan]

What are suggestions at improving at fencing in pools and how should you fence in pools? Go all out agressive or just be passive?

You might also want to check out this thread on pools vs. DEs.

[chinbeard]

No. Never, ever, try not to lose.

Always try to win.

No, they're not the same thing.

You are wise.

[yearsofwisdom]

one question though, if in pools, you find something that works, should you keep on doing that move until it starts to completely fail or switch it up, on something that may not work? what do you think of that?

[telkanuru]

Why would you stop doing something that works?

[catwood1]

I can see the merit of not using your best action in pools if your fencing a vastly inferior opponent.

For example, if I am a great counter attacker, and I'm fencing someone that really sucks, and I can just parry riposte him to death, I might choose to do that instead of counter. It hinders other fencers recon of my game...

[telkanuru]

I don't know.To use epee 2.0 terminology, a lot of times this steers your opponent towards your Area of Excellence, since the usual response is "how do I counter that" which is the wrong question.

The correct question is "how do I make it so that (s)he never does that?"

[Inquartata]

Fence pool bouts in practice. I used to have difficulty with pools a few years ago, and in my club bouting I switched over to nothing but 5-touch bouts for a couple of months. It was very effective for me.

How does this square with the oft-heard advice that one shouldn't be trying to win in practice bouts, but only practicing specific actions without caring whether one loses or not?

I mean, that's not my philosophy, but there are some who swear by it...