White cops must be racist

[Slim]

I guess we've now seen how Obama and the new power structure feels about police and race relations. Admittedly, without knowing the facts, Obama declared to millions of viewers that his black buddy was right and the white cop in Cambridge Ma behaved "stupidly". Let's see how the rest of the power structure handled this:

Henry Gates, "Prestigious" Harvard Professor:

"Gates, who upon his arrest allegedly bellowed to a gathering crowd on Ware Street, “This is what happens to black men in America!” believes he was targeted by Crowley - whom he called a “rogue” cop - because of his race."

Denise Simmons, Mayor of Cambridge:

"This suggests that something happened that should not have happened," Cambridge Mayor E. Denise Simmons said on CNN's "American Morning." "The situation is certainly unfortunate. This can't happen again in Cambridge."

Is she talking about her friend mouthing off and getting arrested for being a turd to the cops? Hardly. Its her jump to the obvious conclusion that this is just a case of a black man getting harassed and arrested in his home for no reason by a white cop representing the white establishment that has "all the power" ? She apologized to Gates, and it preventing the release of the recorded radio transmissions that allegedly show the nutty professor screaming and berating the cop. By the way, the Mayor is a black woman.

Duval Patric, Governer of Ma:

"Patrick said that Gates is “somebody I’ve known for a long time.” “I was upset as many people were about what I was reading,” Patrick said. “I’ve spoken with his counsel today, who is also a friend of mine". "

What was he upset about? His friend being a pompous and belligerent ass to the cop investigating a possible break in at his house? Doubtful. He was upset because it was obvious that this was another case of a black man unjustly treated by a white cop. Oh, the Governor is a black man.

President Obama:

“the Cambridge police acted stupidly in arresting somebody when there was already proof that they were in their own home”.

No one has ever been arrested in their own home for disorderly conduct?
Because it was a black guy getting arrested by a white cop, it had to have been racial.

Way to lead, people.


Here is the full arrest report:

http://www.amnation.com/vfr/Police%2...s%20arrest.PDF

[keith]

No one has ever been arrested in their own home for disorderly conduct?

In Massachusetts you cannot be disorderly if there is no-one to see it.

Which is why the charge was dismissed.

So you can add ignorant of the law to your thread title

[thereom4]

It honestly tires me to talk about race. Why? Because it tends to be the same conversation over and over again. The only thing that changes are the dates and the players.

I was listening to the radio the other day and the dj said that had it been President Bush who said the same thing President Obama said, there would be no issue. I agree. Then again maybe the media would have created an issue, but just not about race.

Whenever there is an issue of race that catches our attention and President Obama comments or doesn't, he will be judged. But not as President. But as our black President. That filter exists in many people's eyes.

I don't think his criticism about the arrest was racially biased at all. If there was any bias on President Obama's part, it may have been that of a friend speaking up for a friend. I don't even think the arrest was racially charged. I think it was ego against ego.

Someone should have backed down. The arresting officer in my opinion should have backed down. It may very well have been in within the officer's authority to make the arrest, but it was still up to his discretion. They charged the professor with disorderly conduct and then immediately dropped the charges. That just says to me that they knew the arrest should not have been made. The professor was angry, he felt disrespected and violated.

[Slim]

Funny....this was a major news story for almost a week, and no one here wants to touch it.

Here is a little snippet from the illustrious professor's Yale application:

"As always, whitey now sits in judgment of me, preparing to cast my fate. It is your decision either to let me blow with the wind as a nonentity or to encourage the development of self. Allow me to prove myself."

Nah, there was nothing racially motivated in this incident.

[Slim]

In Massachusetts you cannot be disorderly if there is no-one to see it.

Which is why the charge was dismissed.

So you can add ignorant of the law to your thread title

You, like most who have passed judgment on the arresting officer didnt read the report. Congrats. You're in good company.

Political pressure had nothing to do with this getting dropped, right?

[JackOfHearts]

If one were to go solely on the police report, then there is a clear racial bias on the part of Mr. Gates. At least such was apparent by the officer's observations. I'll have to research his prior history for bias, but such cases aren't uncommon, at least here anyways. However, unless all evidence is taken into account, such as the radio records which might have samples of Gate's alleged yammerings, as well as give indications of the arresting officer's mood and/or attitude, it is difficult to come to a clear conclusion.

My gut is telling me that it's a case of a tired old man meeting a tired cop, neither of which having had the best of days. But that's just my gut talking, and I've been a bit gassy since dinner.

[I_luv_saber]

In Massachusetts you cannot be disorderly if there is no-one to see it.

Which is why the charge was dismissed.

So you can add ignorant of the law to your thread title

However, according to the officer's report, there were several onlookers. One officer estimated 7.

Based solely on the report, the officer(s) did absolutely nothing wrong.

There was a report of a black man wedging his shoulder into the door with a backpack, and the caller was concerned it was a burglar.

The officer arrived, and did not overreact, but simply asked him if he was the resident and to see some identification. He refused for some time saying the officer was racist, then Gates continued his racism rant on the front porch, in front of several Harvard Police as well as citizens (onlookers). Also note that the officer did not begin to warn Gates that he was being disorderly and risking arrest until he WAS in the presence of onlookers (which, as I understand, is a requirement). He then arrested him in their presence. Sounds an awful lot like disorderly conduct to me.


Look, Gates was acting like a douche, and started to play the race card when clearly no racism was present (when going by the report, of course) in order to get out of it. Clearly he was also trying to get out of it by calling someone in an attempt to throw his weight around.

Now, unless there are some other facts around (which there may well be), the police did nothing wrong whatsoever, IMO. The officers did not behave "stupidly". Honestly, I do not know what Obama's statement on the matter was, but if it was dissing the officers, it was an irresponsible statement to make. That being said, I don't know the exact words he said, so...

[I_luv_saber]

I was listening to the radio the other day and the dj said that had it been President Bush who said the same thing President Obama said, there would be no issue. I agree. Then again maybe the media would have created an issue, but just not about race.

However, if we reversed the races in that theoretical situation, and said the cop was black while Gates was white, I think we would hear calls of racism on the part of Bush. It's ALL stupid, but race is always considered, whether or not it should be.

I don't think his criticism about the arrest was racially biased at all. If there was any bias on President Obama's part, it may have been that of a friend speaking up for a friend. I don't even think the arrest was racially charged. I think it was ego against ego.

I agree that while the statement could have been racially motivated, there's no proof of that. The fact they both happen to be the same race doesn't mean a damn thing by itself. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt (with the facts I've seen thus far) that racism was not behind his statement. However, I still feel it was an irresponsible statement to make.

Someone should have backed down. The arresting officer in my opinion should have backed down.

Bull.

There was a report of a black man possibly breaking and entering. The officer arrived and did NOT begin treating him like a burglar, but simply asked for some ID. Gates blew up and started refusing. By the time it moved outside the officer warned him, twice, that he needed to calm down (more warning than a Fresno cop would have given, I promise you). Gates continued acting the fool, and got popped, as he should have been. I don't care if he's a professor or working at the local Gas N' Gulp, if you are warned by an officer you are breaking the law and asked to stop, and you don't, you should get popped. Frankly, the charges shouldn't have been dismissed in the first place. I think his clout got him out of it, rather than playing the race card.

It may very well have been in within the officer's authority to make the arrest, but it was still up to his discretion.

He broke the law, he should be arrested. Just because he's a bigshot is no reason to back down. He's the same as any other citizen. A cop should never back down when faced with a citizen knowingly breaking the law, IMHO.

They charged the professor with disorderly conduct and then immediately dropped the charges. That just says to me that they knew the arrest should not have been made.

No, it means they felt they could not get it to stick, or that there would be repercussions that made it not worth it. It's sad that someone can get off that way, but that's the way it works...

The professor was angry, he felt disrespected and violated.

Which doesn't make either true.

Again, according to that police report, it's pretty clear cut.

[Slim]

However, if we reversed the races in that theoretical situation, and said the cop was black while Gates was white, I think we would hear calls of racism on the part of Bush. It's ALL stupid, but race is always considered, whether or not it should be.

I agree that while the statement could have been racially motivated, there's no proof of that. The fact they both happen to be the same race doesn't mean a damn thing by itself. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt (with the facts I've seen thus far) that racism was not behind his statement. However, I still feel it was an irresponsible statement to make.

WTF?

You're saying if the races were reversed, Bush would have brought up that it was a racially motivated event, but you'll give Obama a pass?

What a dumb ass statement.

[Gibbo]

Sounds to me like the whole thing has got more to do with a general lack of common sense than race.

[thereom4]

However, if we reversed the races in that theoretical situation, and said the cop was black while Gates was white, I think we would hear calls of racism on the part of Bush. It's ALL stupid, but race is always considered, whether or not it should be.

I agree, it is all stupid.

I agree that while the statement could have been racially motivated, there's no proof of that. The fact they both happen to be the same race doesn't mean a damn thing by itself. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt (with the facts I've seen thus far) that racism was not behind his statement. However, I still feel it was an irresponsible statement to make.

I'm interested in hearing exactly what part of President Obama's statement was racially motivated.

Bull. He broke the law, he should be arrested. Just because he's a bigshot is no reason to back down. He's the same as any other citizen. A cop should never back down when faced with a citizen knowingly breaking the law, IMHO.

No, it means they felt they could not get it to stick, or that there would be repercussions that made it not worth it. It's sad that someone can get off that way, but that's the way it works...

They charged him with disorderly conduct. The charges were dropped. I don't know the particular law or statute in Massuchusetts regarding disorderly conduct but I trust that Keith has done his research when he says: "In Massachusetts you cannot be disorderly if there is no-one to see it."

However, according to the officer's report, there were several onlookers. One officer estimated 7.

Well then there are a few questions that need answering: Where were the onlookers? Where was the arrest made? In the house? On the porch?

There was a report of a black man possibly breaking and entering. The officer arrived and did NOT begin treating him like a burglar, but simply asked for some ID. Gates blew up and started refusing. By the time it moved outside the officer warned him, twice, that he needed to calm down (more warning than a Fresno cop would have given, I promise you). Gates continued acting the fool, and got popped, as he should have been. I don't care if he's a professor or working at the local Gas N' Gulp, if you are warned by an officer you are breaking the law and asked to stop, and you don't, you should get popped. Frankly, the charges shouldn't have been dismissed in the first place. I think his clout got him out of it, rather than playing the race card..

To be clear the caller did not say that a black man was breaking in. Please refer to: http://www.boston.com/video/viral_pa...id=30778961001

As far as what the report said, who wrote the report? Are we to take them at their word? Because of course police officers never lie. History of course has proven this. I honestly don't think the arrest was a racially motivated. I think the arresting officer was trying to teach Gates a lesson. Turns out we are all learning a lesson or two. One of which is.....we all (figurative) go to our respective corners when race becomes an issue. Which is sad.

Which doesn't make either true.

Again, according to that police report, it's pretty clear cut.

What? That the arrest was racially motivated? No it doesn't. But then again I don't think it was. Some do. I think the media backlash after the fact, was.

Again, who wrote the police report. All dogs are blue. I wrote it. So it must be true.

Look, Gates was acting like a douche, and started to play the race card when clearly no racism was present (when going by the report, of course) in order to get out of it. Clearly he was also trying to get out of it by calling someone in an attempt to throw his weight around.

But what was he trying to get out of? They would have dropped the charges regardless. Why? Because they didn't have a strong enough case. Did his behavior meet the elements of disorderly conduct? Did ALL the elements have to be met?

In Massachusetts a disorderly person is defined as one who:
with purpose to cause public inconvenience, annoyance or alarm, or recklessly creates a risk thereof engages in fighting or threatening, violent or tumultuous behavior, or creates a hazard or physically offensive condition by any act which serves no legitimate purpose.

http://www.masscriminaldefense.com/disorderly.htm

The amount of money the people of the state of Massachusetts would have spent to prosecute Gates (who most assuredly would have fought the charge tooth and nail) for disorderly conduct would have been obscence for a charge like that.

I hate when people say someone is playing the race card. I really do. Except when they actually are, because they did dumb $hit.

Do you know how he felt? You don't. If he felt that he was being targeted because of his race, he probably had a reason for that. I suppose when I go into a store and take a store employee to task for following me around, I'm playing the race card too. I'll answer that. No. I've had to tell a number of store employees that (a) Today is not my stealing day or (b) I don't need a personal shopper, but if I do I'll ask. I'm a 27 y/o woman. I don't wear baggy clothes, I don't talk loud (though I laugh loud, b/c I love to laugh) I don't go out in large groups. I don't do any of those things stores use as excuses to profile. And they do. Anyone who thinks otherwise is living in la, la land. Truth be told most of store shrink comes from employees.

On a lighter note: http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/b26...om-the-message

Use with discretion, but laugh indiscriminately.

[lindajdunn]

You, like most who have passed judgment on the arresting officer didnt read the report. Congrats. You're in good company.

Political pressure had nothing to do with this getting dropped, right?

No more than in any other case. I know people in small towns who regularly have charges dismissed because everyone knows so-and-so.

If you read the police report, you'll notice some discrepencies with what the police officer reported and what other witnesses (not Gates) have stated. For example, the report says he talked to the person who reported the probably break-in while the woman who reported it claims never to have spoken to the officer.

I suspect most of us see this as a "He said/He said" situation and we're waiting to see how it plays out. My personal opinion is that Obama was wrong to comment on this incident.

Note that Obama used to live in that area and in his book, he had mentioned being pulled over for DWB [Driving While Black]. If you're white and don't believe this happens, try renting a sporty looking red car and driving 1 mile over the speed limit. Thus, I can understand why Obama spoke out on this but he's still wrong to have done so.

[fencerchica]

After reading the police report, listening to the tapes of the 911 call, and reading the news coverage, my personal opinion is that race was only tangentially involved and that the real underlying cause was a little more systemic: a creeping authoritarian streak in the police force. I think Gates leapt to the (quite likely incorrect, for once) conclusion that the heavy-handedness of the police was on account of his race, and when he mouthed off at the arresting officer, that officer decided he wasn't going to take sass from a mere civillian (no matter black or white) and chose to abuse his power in order to retaliate. When you take this in the context of the accelerating spate of tasing deaths, failure to announce + excessive force in entering homes, harrassment of cyclists, harrassment of people who request complaint forms from police stations, and so on, as well as in the context of the overall recent political climate of the country, I think it all comes together to point at a tendency towards abuse of power as well as a lack of sufficient training. Mouthing off to the police is definitely rude and distasteful, but we have the civil right to be rude and distasteful, when we aren't breaking the law.

Edited to add: Amanda Marcotte wrote a good article on the subject.

Edited again to add: And so did Christopher Hitchens.

[Philistine]

{snipped stuff}

I agree.

I thought it was pretty clear that Gates was arrested for "contempt of cop" and a white professor acting the same way would have likely had the same experience from this officer.

There is a saying for this type of thing: "You can beat the rap, but you can't beat the ride." Essentially meaning that a sufficiently annoyed cop can arrest about anyone with no expectation that the charge will stick, causing them a great amount of aggravation (and possibly money)--and the cop will almost certainly suffer no repurcusions.

--Philistine

[I_luv_saber]

WTF?

You're saying if the races were reversed, Bush would have brought up that it was a racially motivated event, but you'll give Obama a pass?

No, what I was saying was that Bush would have been questioned about possible racial motivation just as Obama is now if situations were reversed. I didn't say Bush WOULD be a racist, just that accusations would fly just as easily as they are now. Read thoroughly before jumping the gun.

Did Obama explicitly say he felt it was racially motivated? As I said, judging from the facts I've heard, all Obama said was that the police acted poorly (and I fully admitted I have not seen anything aside from the police report), which I said was irresponsible.

I'm interested in hearing exactly what part of President Obama's statement was racially motivated.

I didn't say it was. I said it COULD be, but that there was no proof it was (except for the very, very circumstantial of them both happening to be black), and as such I will give him the benefit of the doubt that it was not. Either way, I do stand by my statement calling his statement irresponsible, pending further evidence.

They charged him with disorderly conduct. The charges were dropped. I don't know the particular law or statute in Massuchusetts regarding disorderly conduct but I trust that Keith has done his research when he says: "In Massachusetts you cannot be disorderly if there is no-one to see it."

THERE WAS! I just said that! The police report clearly states that at the time he was arrested, he was in full view of 7 onlookers all looking "alarmed and shocked" at his behavior!

Well then there are a few questions that need answering: Where were the onlookers? Where was the arrest made? In the house? On the porch?

If I am reading the report correctly, it was pretty clear that the arrest was made on the porch (as well as warnings), where he was continuing to rant, while onlookers were gaping from the sidewalk. Sounds pretty much like it was in full view to me...

To be clear the caller did not say that a black man was breaking in.

Not according to the police report found here

According to that, as the officer arrived on scene, Whalen (the caller), sade she had observed what appeared to be 2 black males that were acting suspiciously (shouldering the door, etc).

As far as what the report said, who wrote the report? Are we to take them at their word? Because of course police officers never lie. History of course has proven this.

Are we to instead trust the media who never lies, and has no motivation to write another racially charged story? Evidence is evidence. As I said, if there is evidence to the contrary and the situation is not on the up & up, then OK. But how is it right to assume the officers must be lying because they are... officers? Name the fallacy, anyone?

Until evidence is brought to light to the contrary, the police report stands, and there is no reason to believe racism was a factor (at this point).

What? That the arrest was racially motivated?

No, that he was either disrespected or violated.

Again, who wrote the police report. All dogs are blue. I wrote it. So it must be true.

It was written by officer Crowley, the arresting officer, and approved by another on-site officer. The witness (caller) name is on there as well, but I don't know if that means she approved it.

This is a report filed by officers of the law. We are to assume it's a lie because of a wild accusation made by Gates? So much for innocent until proven guilty... I guess that doesn't apply to officers.

But what was he trying to get out of? They would have dropped the charges regardless. Why? Because they didn't have a strong enough case.

Perhaps, but what else should you do? Sit there and let someone break the law and push over law enforcement (figuratively)? Doesn't set a good example, methinks.

Did his behavior meet the elements of disorderly conduct? Did ALL the elements have to be met?

Not being a lawyer, yes, I believe so. He was yelling at officers, was uncooperative in general (refusing to show ID at first), was warned to calm down (twice), and resisted attempts to handcuff, all in full view of onlookers. If this had been an everyday citizen (regardless of race), I think charges would have stuck.

with purpose to cause public inconvenience, annoyance or alarm, or

Yup.

recklessly creates a risk thereof

Possibly, but this could be more of a stretch. I'd have to see some applications in the past.

engages in fighting or threatening, violent or tumultuous behavior, or

Very possible, according to the report.

creates a hazard or physically offensive condition by any act which serves no legitimate purpose.

Very possible. It does not specify in the report either way.

What I am taking umbrage to is the fact the cops are assumed to be wrong for some very odd reason.

Does it mean that he deserved the charge? Not necessarily. But that also doesn't mean 1) that it was racially motivated or that 2) the cops are automatically wrong. At this point, it's all he said/she said.

The amount of money the people of the state of Massachusetts would have spent to prosecute Gates (who most assuredly would have fought the charge tooth and nail) for disorderly conduct would have been obscence for a charge like that.

And that makes it OK for people to break the law?

I hate when people say someone is playing the race card. I really do. Except when they actually are, because they did dumb $hit.

According to the report, he apparently WAS playing the race card. He started ranting about it as soon as the cop confronted him.

Do you know how he felt? You don't. If he felt that he was being targeted because of his race, he probably had a reason for that.

That's ridiculous. So, the cops must be biased in their report because they have a stake, but Gates must not be biased in his calls of racism because he has no stake in it?

I've met plenty of people who call racism too quickly. Not a lot, but I've met them. Simply the fact he felt he was racially targeted proved absolutely nothing.

I suppose when I go into a store and take a store employee to task for following me around, I'm playing the race card too.

Now that's not fair, and you know it. I'm not simply saying he played the race card because he was black. I'm saying it because he was RANTING ABOUT RACISM WHEN NONE WAS PRESENT! Unless more facts come to light, this is what the facts point to, and I really, really, don't appreciate the implication you are making towards me. Dirty pool.

[keith]

I agree.

I thought it was pretty clear that Gates was arrested for "contempt of cop" and a white professor acting the same way would have likely had the same experience from this officer.

Can't imagine a white professor, after presenting his Harvard ID (within a Harvard grace and favour house as I recall), would then have the Harvard police called on him.

Although maybe Harvard professors are so badly paid these days that petty theft is the only way to pay the bills.

[migopod]

I love this crazy bizarro world stuff where Rush Limbaugh can belch into his solid gold microphone about how the person he refers to as a "little black man-child" is a racist for suggesting that it was stupid to arrest Dr Gates.

Now the right wing punditry is championing the rights of the government to come to a private citizen's home and arrest and detain them for complaining about being compelled to show their identification documents in their own home.

Last time I checked, just yelling at a cop on your porch isn't disorderly conduct. Something about the constitutional ammendment that comes before the 2nd one comes to mind.

In the defense of the Cambridge PD tho, there are a lot of places in the U.S. where Dr. Gates would have been tased or shot in the same situation.

[I_luv_saber]

Now the right wing punditry is championing the rights of the government to come to a private citizen's home and arrest and detain them for complaining about being compelled to show their identification documents in their own home.

Last time I checked, just yelling at a cop on your porch isn't disorderly conduct. Something about the constitutional ammendment that comes before the 2nd one comes to mind.

In the defense of the Cambridge PD tho, there are a lot of places in the U.S. where Dr. Gates would have been tased or shot in the same situation.

If anything, yeah, it was probably the cop getting a little out of hand because he was pissed about getting yelled at. May not be right, but that's how it is. But that does not equate to racism, which is what the big deal was about (as I understand it).

[fencerchica]

If anything, yeah, it was probably the cop getting a little out of hand because he was pissed about getting yelled at. May not be right, but that's how it is. But that does not equate to racism, which is what the big deal was about (as I understand it).

Yeah, this was my point too... I think that we may be beginning to develop a problem in this country with abuse of power in how how police officers and civillians relate to one another. This incident could have been made into a real "teaching moment" on the topic, but now that it's been turned into a racial issue on somewhat shaky grounds, I'm afraid that the opportunity has been lost and people aren't taking the incident seriously any more. Maybe the next time an eighty-something-year-old grandmother gets blown away by police officers who broke into her house (mistakenly, they had the wrong building number) without having announced themselves (she reasonably assumed they were robbers -- who wouldn't have!), the topic will come back to the forefront again... for about fifteen seconds.

Edited to add, I don't mean to sound completely one-sided on this either -- creating an atmosphere of distrust and hostility between police officers and civillians isn't beneficial or pleasant for law enforcement folks either. For their sake too, I think examining the problem and investing in some education is important.

[migopod]

If anything, yeah, it was probably the cop getting a little out of hand because he was pissed about getting yelled at. May not be right, but that's how it is. But that does not equate to racism, which is what the big deal was about (as I understand it).

There's still a lot of he-said-he-said going on, but I think it's pretty likely that both Gates and Crowley got out of hand. From everything I've heard about Dr Gates, jumping right into accusations of racism are not particularly in character, but who knows. After a ridiculously long flight, probably horrible traffic and then the frustratingly jammed door, maybe his fuse was way too short. Still, it was pretty bad form to arrest him for essentially "mouthing off" to the police.

In other news, beer preferences have been released.
Crowley: Blue Moon
Gates: Redstripe / Beck's
Obama: Budweiser.

Want to place early bets on how the chattering classes will manage to characterize President Obama as elitist for his beer preference?