Improving arm strength & endurance for bladework

[Emfuser]

I am curious if any of the fine denizens of f.net have some good exercises for increasing arm strength (for faster, more crisp, solid blade movements... particularly parries) and endurance. Endurance is something else I'd like to improve, as having my arms turn to jello mid-phrase has cost me innumerable points in the past.

For all I know the advice may be "get a trainer and work arms", but it won't hurt me to ask what folks here have done to do what I'm looking to do.

[Gav]

Get an exercise band. Wrap it round an exercise bike, or get someone to told it. Stand on guard and hold the band in your dominant hand. Make parrying actions. Make sure you work both the sixte and quarte lines. You can also have the band behind so that when you extend your arm you can feel the resitance to your extension. The exercise should be difficult but painful. It shouldn't be easy.

For good finger strength do anything that works your forearm. There's piles of exercises for that.

[Emfuser]

That's interesting, if not a bit odd.

[wwalkerjr]

Get an exercise band. Wrap it round an exercise bike, or get someone to told it. Stand on guard and hold the band in your dominant hand. Make parrying actions. Make sure you work both the sixte and quarte lines. You can also have the band behind so that when you extend your arm you can feel the resitance to your extension. The exercise should be difficult but painful. It shouldn't be easy.

I have this image of Wily E. Coyote executing these exercises, except the rubber bands cause the "anvil" to come flying at the hapless practitioner, collecting him and slamming him into the side of mountain, ears down.

[tkexi991]

Pushups, free weights, and private lessons.

[Gav]

I should clarify that I mean that the exercise should be difficult but not painful. Bit of a bad typo there.

I should also say that you should work these actions slowly and smoothly.

[Allen Evans]

It doesn't sound like an odd exercise to me. To be beneficial for fencing, the exercise should follow the guidelines of specificity (the exercise should actually resemble a fencing motion) and not over load the muscles that are being worked too much. An exercise band worked from an on guard and through fencing specific actions will provide resistance through the entire motion: probably better than simply grabbing a weight and moving it around, or doing push ups.

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

Exercise specificity and utility are not necessarily the same deal.

It would make sense to first understand where you're feeling fatigued, and question whether or not its something that can be improved with a band exercise.

Most likely, if your arm is feeling tired and your bladework seems slow, then your arm is just too tense.

Fast bladework is mostly just technique and quick reactions.

Work on reducing the tension in your arm and shoulder. Do a lot of bladework drills with a friend or a dummy to improve your endurance.

If you really want to increase the strength of your hands and arms, then I suggest doing heavy deadlifts.

[counterattack]

I am curious if any of the fine denizens of f.net have some good exercises for increasing arm strength (for faster, more crisp, solid blade movements... particularly parries) and endurance. Endurance is something else I'd like to improve, as having my arms turn to jello mid-phrase has cost me innumerable points in the past.

For all I know the advice may be "get a trainer and work arms", but it won't hurt me to ask what folks here have done to do what I'm looking to do.

I have been trying one of those fancy weighted gloves that F.net sells. In three weeks time my beat six is getting stronger, which was the entire reason for the purchase. I just have a broken blade stuck in the center hole of a pile of free weights and I do a beat off the blade and lunge at a swinging golf ball on a string. I only do 7 minutes of this every other day, split roughly 2/3 to 1/3 between beat six and beat four.

The good thing about the gloves is that the weight is not too much, it is adjustable (you can remove 2/3 of the weight), and it is forward of the wrist. I do not know what a trainer would say about this, so I have been going slow with it and looking for pain in my elbow or wrist as signs to back off, but so far my only problem has been the middle segment weight on the middle finger hits the bell guard.

Short of spending $45 for these gloves (and then selling the off-handed glove to someone who needs it for half the price) you could probably add some weight to a bell guard with hot glue and washers =) It shouldn't be much weight, probably 300g-500g would do. It should probably be symmetrically placed across all the axes you plan to move through. I am not a trainer, and if you have elbow pain or wrist pain then these almost certainly aren't for you.
Also, if your technique is terrible or bad (rather than decent or excellent) you should probably polish your technique before you begin this. A couple of weeks doing the same drills you plan to do with the weights, focusing on keeping the movement in the wrist and fingers and the actions as small as possible, would probably do the trick.
I suffered atrophy to my triceps and some forearm muscles after a nerve injury a few years ago, and this is my attempt to get the forearm muscles back. It seems to be working decently.

-philip

[badpenny]

A few points to consider:

i) Unless you are in terrible condition, it's difficult to build strength & endurance together. You can get bigger and stronger and stay at your current endurance, or you can improve your endurance and keep what muscles you have. Only an absolute newb can do both, only because they are so poor at both. Think about training for a cycle, like, I'm going to get stronger for 8 weeks, then I'll work on my endurance for 8 weeks.

ii) Exercise specific conditioning, like: Using hand weights while fencing, or ankle weights, bands, ... are strongly discouraged imho. You risk injury to the joint, but also you risk ruining your technique. Don't do it! When you train for fencing, work on technique and tactics, when you train for conditioning work on strength and speed. Don't confuse the two and you'll be strong and healthy.

I think you really need bigger, stronger muscles. That will give you the speed your are looking for and the strength to keep proper alignment and on-guard while you are fencing.

I suggest you consider resistance training. As a further suggestion, I advise to you always load your joints in equal parts, so for example if you do a set of bench presses, follow it up with a set of rows. If you do a set of overhead presses, follow it up with a set of chin ups. Do this for joint health, it's important that each opposing muscle group develop together. Injuries often occur because one set of muscles is overpowering it's opposite. Also, you need both sides on a joint for speed. Little known fact, but true, your opposing muscles have a breaking effect on all your actions. So, if you go bonkers developing one set of muscles, you won't see the speed improvement you would if you developed both sides. (This is why so many bodybuilders are so damn slow and groundbound.) Your body adjusts joint speed based on how strong the opposing muscle groups can handle it.

Hire a trainer if you are uncomfortable with the idea of how to start, but free weights/bodyweight exercies are the way to go for me. Oh, and get a physical before you start.

Good luck.

[Emfuser]

Thanks for the replies, everyone.

I've been doing regular training of varietal sorts lately that has contributed more to my fitness, which was already pretty good, and also improved my legs, but my upper body has been neglected. I have some muscular imbalance issues that are extremely obvious to anyone who examines me, and I think that is part of this. I recognized that I need to improve both strength and endurance fitness in my upper body in order to even begin to rectify what's going on. Yes, I'm aware that training both aspects simultaneously is difficult.

I get a free physical every year courtesy of my employer (so I can remain qualified to operate a small bridge crane over our spent fuel pool), but they just affirm to me that I'm in great shape. (with the usual "why the hell are your legs so big compared to your upper body?" sorts of questions). I'm 5'8", 145 lbs, and built... like a fencer. I work out 2-3 days a week + one day of practice + occasional weekend competitions.

I think I will go ahead and get to working with a trainer and also incorporate some of the suggestions given in this thread.

Again, thanks, and keep them coming if you're reading and your fingers are twitching to share something.

[Cerian]

Wrist roller. Good for forearms. Attach 5 pound weight, extend arms, roll it up pulling towards you, then roll down, then roll it up pulling away from you, then roll down. Increase weight as necessary, and try not to cry... (these burn like hell). Just do a couple sets of that. Keep your arms out straight and isolate your movement to the forearm. No cranking with the shoulders/hips.

Other than that more fencing and anything that requires good grip strength (DFP already mentioned deadlifts. Pull ups/chin ups would also do the trick and work your upper body more). Also, I find jumprope gets my forearms/arms pretty tired (more tired than my legs...), and it's also great for legs and agility and coordination, so always a good choice...

Ultimately though, the most important thing is, as others have said, to be relaxed with your arm movements and make sure you aren't tensing up where you shouldn't be.

[masker]

Most likely, if your arm is feeling tired and your bladework seems slow, then your arm is just too tense.

Fast bladework is mostly just technique and quick reactions.

Work on reducing the tension in your arm and shoulder. Do a lot of bladework drills with a friend or a dummy to improve your endurance.

That's similar to what I was thinking. Maybe I'm wrong, but for the average fencer in something like average fencing shape, arm endurance seems to me to be a relatively minor issue, and arm strength close to a non-issue. Arm tension and technique, however--those are a big deal, and if those are the real source of the problem, building strength in one's arms will do nothing about it. It might even make it worse.

[Grasshopper]

If you really want to increase the strength of your hands and arms, then I suggest doing heavy deadlifts.

Deadlifts are the answer to everything, right DFP?

How to solve the crisis in the MidEast: Deadlifts
What to do about Medical insurance issue: Deadlifts
"Doctor, my husband doesn't find me attractive anymore": Deadlifts

[epeelion]

He's actually right about the being overly tense part though...a lot of fatigue and sloppiness in fencing can be reduced by relaxing and tensing only necessary muscles, what my coach called "relaxed power".

[Craig]

I have been trying one of those fancy weighted gloves that F.net sells. In three weeks time my beat six is getting stronger, which was the entire reason for the purchase. I just have a broken blade stuck in the center hole of a pile of free weights and I do a beat off the blade and lunge at a swinging golf ball on a string. I only do 7 minutes of this every other day, split roughly 2/3 to 1/3 between beat six and beat four.

You should also be using these gloves on both hands doing other agility and hand-eye coordination exercises. It won't get rid of the asymmetry that builds up in the upper body, but it will help a little bit with balancing things out.

The ball catching drills are really good to do. I think we link out to the youtube videos for that on the product page.

Craig

[Superscribe]

My shoulder's have a lot of mass, but not a lot of endurance. To build that, I've taken up jump roping. Get a heavy jump rope, and just go at it for however long you can. I've heard 400 reps as a good number.

Lot of other good is being developed with jump roping. You'd be suprised how tired your shoulders get.

[tyciol]

Pushups, free weights, and private lessons.

Pushups create a good base of strength. Considering there's more of a shoulder element, the more inclined the better (like if someone could do handstand, or work up to that). This is especially the case when one leans forward with the torso and needs to extend overhead for long-distance lunges.

Doing stuff like forward and side raises with dumbbells would also be useful. Probably some shoulder and wrist rotation (internal/external and pronation/supination) would also be useful for the endurance in the muscles needed to execute these quick movements.

For stuff like parrying, doing lever work would work on the pronator/supinators. Definitely nothing beats training technique, but one wants to do that in a fresh state while having a reserve of endurance and that can be built with less specific resistance training.

[whtouche]

The deadlift is The best exercise for total body strength. It's the answer to most things.
On the subject of arm strength tho I would also recommend bench-pressing with dumbells. Concentrate on accelerating the weight - even if it's too heavy for you to move really fast, it has been proven that the Intent to accelerate a weight is what matters in terms of building explosive power.

Since I started benching with dumbells as described above I have noticed a huge increase in my extension and overall hand speed.

Shoulder exercises will also do alot towards controlling arm fatigue. Medium-high rep lateral raises with dumbells, to the side, diagonal, and in front of you, with a weight you can use good form for all the reps on.

These and other exercises (if there's interest I'll post more) are what has allowed me to strengthen my arms and shoulders to the point where they rarely get fatigued while fencing anymore, in the wake of shoulder surgery about a year ago because of a torn labrum, during which time I could not hold my right arm up at all while fencing.

[sabregrrrl]

You might want to try a weekly yoga class to balance out all the weightlifting. One of our fencing moms is a physical therapist; she recommended a weekly class while I increased my strength training this summer. It's a gentle way to stretch everything out and will alleviate the built up tension (and lactic acid) in your muscles. Not only that, but it increases your strength in a low-impact, low-stress environment.