Lugano (SUI) Epee Challenge: a cheaper alternative to NAC?

[gladius]

A casual visitor to this forum would likely be justified if he believed that the USFA primary/only concern is how to get out of the financial hole they are in by charging more and more for less and less service to its members.

If this is indeed the case, it is not very promising for the sport of US fencing at the high competitive level (and future expected successes) but also for the general population of recreational or veteran fencers who would like to fence and compete at a reasonable cost. Incidentally, the issue of cost is one of the main concerns of the current FIE administration since at least THEY understand that it is not smart to price yourself out of what the market can bear and THEY want to expand the number of fencers worldwide as much as possible.

So, maybe it's time to look at alternatives where even if the total amount paid is the same, the entire experience may turn out to be more enjoyable and even useful. Check for example the invitation to the Lugano (Switzerland) Epee Challenge

http://www.luganochallenge.com/

and

http://www.luganochallenge.com/conte...09_ENGLISH.pdf

Lugano, a beautiful town on the lake, has all the advantages of Switzerland (order, efficiency) and Italy (charm, elegant, excellent food) combined, with hopefully not many of the disadvantages of each.

It would be interesting if some of our experts (teacup?) could run a cost comparison between what it would cost to go there and compete or to a NAC of your choice under the current circumstances. (Sorry Inq, this is only epee but I'll keep an eye on some even sexier AND cheaper saber alternatives for you )

Yes, there is the important detail that even though this event is one of the cadet and junior qualifications for the Swiss, it is not an FIE "A" junior event and the problem of "USFA points" which such tournament, unless designated (for junior and/or cadet), would not offer, but it could still be worth considering for the experience, and you would not have to contend with the nice folks at THS.

(I don't have any relation with the FSE (Swiss Fencing Federation) or the organizers of this event and I'm not trying to promote them in any way shape or form. All I'm interested in is to understand how others do what we apparently can't.)

[Peach]

Good job of reductio ad absurdam It puts our troubles with THS in perspective.

[keith]

most importantly ...

Don't joke, European vet tournaments are looking increasingly attractive.

[peet]

Switzerland is one very spendy place to go. Not at all the 1st choice of the budget-conscious.

-p

[gladius]

Good job of reductio ad absurdam It puts our troubles with THS in perspective.

If you use Latin citations, spelling is essential if you want to be understood (ask Inq. about it). It is reductio ad absurdum, not absurdam

And yes, a comparison with THS would not hurt just like with the registration fee, etc. and as keith pointed out European veteran events are looking increasingly attractive. I hope you may find this info useful.

Fees aside, there are other interesting things in the FSE invitation like the Sponsor tab. When was the last time you saw a sponsor tab in the NAC/JO/SN official USFA announcement?

[nahouw]

Don't joke, European vet tournaments are looking increasingly attractive.

totally AGREED

[Peach]

Nah. I had to go to Britain and then France for Vet Worlds, and now to Moscow, and the travel is not comparable in expense, duration, or time off from work, even if I didn't fly in earlier in order to acclimatize--much as I enjoy going abroad, a NAC is much more easy and convenient even if it's across the country.

Of course, the main reason I do NACs is for the points anyway. I don't think I'd be doing national events if they weren't point events.

If you use Latin citations, spelling is essential if you want to be understood (ask Inq. about it). It is reductio ad absurdum, not absurdam

Sorry--typo. Meant to write reducttapio ad absorbium. - re-taping the paper towel.

[Allen Evans]

Another factor, of course, is the exchange rate for the currency of the country you're dealing with. Depending on the timng of your trip, your costs can suddenly rise a considerable amount off of your budget. Of course, the reverse can happen, as well.

There are also of course, intangibles. A few days in Edinburgh or Copenhagen, or another European city is going to be a lot more interesting then Des Moines, and might be worth rextra the time off of work and the expense.

[Peach]

A few days in Edinburgh or Copenhagen, or another European city is going to be a lot more interesting then Des Moines, and might be worth the time off of work and the expense.

That's assuming that you see anything of the place you're visiting; Des Moines would probably look a lot like Boston or Pittsburgh to me if I'm there to fence.

[Allen Evans]

That's assuming that you see anything of the place you're visiting; Des Moines would probably look a lot like Boston or Pittsburgh to me if I'm there to fence.

I guess my point being that I would MAKE time to see something of a foreign city, but probably wouldn't spend any extra days in Des Moines to play tourist (no offence to its no doubt charming residents and sights).

[fencerchica]

Des Moines is reputed to have some nice microbreweries I'm looking forward to visiting while I'm in town for the NAC.

[telkanuru]

That's assuming that you see anything of the place you're visiting; Des Moines would probably look a lot like Boston or Pittsburgh to me if I'm there to fence.

I think I'm fairly offended by that

[Peach]

I think I'm fairly offended by that

Oh, good. My work here is done

[telkanuru]

Oh, good. My work here is done

[teacup]

Oct NAC - 2 events ME, Saturday and Sunday
DFW - DSM - $475.00
Entry Fee $190.
Hotel - 3 x $150.00 = $450.00
Breakfast 3 x $20.00 = $60.00
Total = $1175.00

Sept SUI Epee - 2 events. Saturday and Sunday
LAX - MXP $749.
Entry fee $43.
Holiday Inn 3 x $173. = $519.00*
Breakfast - included
Total - $1311.00

If it was Men's Foil though:
Oct NAC - 2 events MF, Friday and Monday
DFW - DSM - $475.00
Entry Fee $190.
Hotel - 5 x $150.00 = $750.00
Breakfast 5 x $20.00 = $100.00
Total = $1515.00

Dec NAC - 2 events, Friday and Saturday
LAX - PIT $381.
Entry fee - 190.
Hotel 3 x $150.00 = $450.
Breakfast 3 x $20.00 = $60.
Total - $1081.00

Dec NAC - 2 events, Friday and Sunday
LAX - PIT $381.
Entry fee - $190.
Hotel 4 x $150.00 = $600.
Breakfast 4 x $20.00 = $80.
Total - $1251.00

Sept SUI Epee - 2 events. Saturday and Sunday
LAX - MXP $722.
Entry fee $43.
Holiday Inn 3 x $173. = $519.00*
Breakfast - included
Total - $1284.00

Sept SUI Epee - 2 events. Saturday and Sunday
LAX - MXP $749.
Entry fee $43.
Holiday Inn 3 x $173. = $519.00*
Breakfast - included
Total - $1311.00

Oct NAC - 2 events ME, Saturday and Sunday
JFK - DSM - $323.00
Entry Fee $190.
Hotel - 3 x $150.00 = $450.00
Breakfast 3 x $20.00 = $60.00
Total = $1023.00

Sept SUI Epee - 2 events. Saturday and Sunday
JFK - MXP $553.
Entry fee $43.
Holiday Inn 3 x $173. = $519.00*
Breakfast - included
Total - $1115.00

*Host hotel may be less expensive.

[Grasshopper]

Getting blown out in the first round....priceless.

[Gav]

There are also of course, intangibles. A few days in Edinburgh or Copenhagen, or another European city is going to be a lot more interesting then Des Moines, and might be worth rextra the time off of work and the expense.

Having ... ummm... fenced in both of these cities I can only concur with AE.

Edinburgh is obviously the better location because it contains me!

[teacup]

Getting blown out in the first round....priceless.

So where would you rather hang out after you are done if you don't want to watch fencing, Lakeside in Switzerland or walking around a closed up financial district near a convention center?

[gladius]

Switzerland is one very spendy place to go. Not at all the 1st choice of the budget-conscious.
-p

Agree, Switzerland is no bargain, but this makes our costs and the USFA general approach even more absurd if you look at teacup's cost comparison between the Swiss case and two NACs (DSM and PIT).

In teacup's analysis of the costs for the two NACs and the Lugano event from various parts of the country,

• NAC costs range from $1023 (JFK-DSM) to $1515 (DFW-DSM)
• Swiss event costs range from $1115 (JFK-MXP) to $1311 (LAX-MXP).

How can we expect to

1. keep the members we already have, and
   
2. increase membership and competitive participation by attracting new and young kids and their families to this sport with these costs?

[NGV]

Oct NAC - 2 events ME, Saturday and Sunday
DFW - DSM - $475.00
Entry Fee $190.
Hotel - 3 x $150.00 = $450.00
Breakfast 3 x $20.00 = $60.00
Total = $1175.00

Sept SUI Epee - 2 events. Saturday and Sunday
LAX - MXP $749.
Entry fee $43.
Holiday Inn 3 x $173. = $519.00*
Breakfast - included
Total - $1311.00

Ya know, I think it might be possible to spend a weekend in Des Moines without paying $150 per person per day for a hotel, or $20 per day for breakfast.