guards clashing

[Alex_the_foilist]

i recently went in a state U17 comp for foil and i had been told prior to it that if the guards of the weapons clash the referee has to call hault. and in the poules the referee did call hault and in my first two DE rounds ( direct elimination) the referees did call hault but then in the quarter finals the guards clashed a number of times and the referee didnt call hault. so do they have to call hault if guards clash in foil or not??

thx Alex

[Codex]

hault.

Kids today...

[edew]

Kids todauy...

Ftfy

hth
kthxbye
ttyl

[dberke]

i recently went in a state U17 comp for foil and i had been told prior to it that if the guards of the weapons clash the referee has to call hault. and in the poules the referee did call hault and in my first two DE rounds ( direct elimination) the referees did call hault but then in the quarter finals the guards clashed a number of times and the referee didnt call hault. so do they have to call hault if guards clash in foil or not??

thx Alex

I have always been told that if the guards come in contact with each other, so long as the fencers are still able to wield their weapons properly, the is no halt called.

Rule aside, I think you need to ask yourself what heck is going on that causes the guards to come into contact so often! In foil I rarely if ever see this happen - it's a little more common in epee, but even still it's pretty rare.

If you're seeing guards come into contact more than once per day, I venture to guess that one or both of the fencers has a really, really bad sense of distance...

Dan

[Alex_the_foilist]

I have always been told that if the guards come in contact with each other, so long as the fencers are still able to wield their weapons properly, the is no halt called.

Rule aside, I think you need to ask yourself what heck is going on that causes the guards to come into contact so often! In foil I rarely if ever see this happen - it's a little more common in epee, but even still it's pretty rare.

If you're seeing guards come into contact more than once per day, I venture to guess that one or both of the fencers has a really, really bad sense of distance...

Dan

well they always clash cause wen people get stuck and ur close to eachother the purposly do it so the person calls hault

[edew]

Don't caull hault and see what the fencers will do tautically. If they actuaully run into each other, then caull hault for corps-a-corps.

[Simaraon]

Don't caull hault and see what the fencers will do tautically. If they actuaully run into each other, then caull hault for corps-a-corps.

Don't be mean, I'd caull it interesting spelling, and I'd hate to faull short of the powers at worlds next year at baku on the caspian sea. Aull my friends are trying to qualify. Hope y'aull make it as well...

[fdad]

well they always clash cause wen people get stuck and ur close to eachother the purposly do it so the person calls hault

So you are purposely hitting your opponent's guard to cause a halt?
Did you try looking for this rule in the rulebook? I don't see any such rule for halt, but if you consider this as corps-a-corps, then there is a rule against doing it on purpose.

[chinbeard]

how too fence? wut iz infiteing?

[erik_blank]

When I first started fencing in the late 80's there was still a written rule in the rule book that specifically stated a halt is to be called in the event of a clash of bell guards. That was later removed (not exactly sure when), but the rule is still there in a sense. A halt is to be called in the event that a fencer is no longer able to wield his weapon effectively. Some referees believe (and I think rightly) that if the bells clash together that the hands of the fencers are often jostled enough to prevent the fencers from effectively wielding their weapons, and hence a halt should be called. Unfortunately this is a subjective call on the part of the referee and is not often called here in the WPD.

[masker]

A halt is to be called in the event that a fencer is no longer able to wield his weapon effectively.

I am -so- invoking this rule next time an opponent beats my blade, or does a feint-disengage, or makes a riposte into a line I'm not expecting...or just generally looks at me funny on the strip.

[D'Art]

Easy way to do this is to take a couple of steps backs and let go of your weapon as soon as you see your opponent starting the beat action, while raising your hand to get the ref's attention. Unless they're good, you'll get the benefit of the doubt every time. Not that I've ever done anything remotely like gamesmanship. Ever. Honestly.....

[erik_blank]

Easy way to do this is to take a couple of steps backs and let go of your weapon as soon as you see your opponent starting the beat action, while raising your hand to get the ref's attention. Unless they're good, you'll get the benefit of the doubt every time. Not that I've ever done anything remotely like gamesmanship. Ever. Honestly.....

The rule about disarming your opponent is that if you disarm you opponent and then land on target in a 'single action' then the point is allowed. OF course this assumes that the referee is awake and that your opponent cannot back up fast enough to get out of the way... I've been disarmed before and had my weapon dangling from the body cord dragging on the ground with my hand in the air and the referee seemed to be in some sort of trance for half of my retreat down to the end of the strip...

[D'Art]

The rule about disarming your opponent is that if you disarm you opponent and then land on target in a 'single action' then the point is allowed.

Hence the stepping back part of my post. It drastically reduces the chances of them hitting with one action

OF course this assumes that the referee is awake and that your opponent cannot back up fast enough to get out of the way... I've been disarmed before and had my weapon dangling from the body cord dragging on the ground with my hand in the air and the referee seemed to be in some sort of trance for half of my retreat down to the end of the strip...

Meh, that's nothing. I've had a ref totally miss my light, and my opponent hit me so late my light had actually gone off again before he hit me. Guess who got the hit.

[catwood1]

Without going back and searching for it, I remember DownUnder saying that internationally, anytime there is a guard clash of any significance, a halt is almost always called. Not for c-o-c, but because it is jarring to the hand.*

*There is probably a 10% chance I am completely misquoting /misremembering him, so if that is the case, I sincerely apologize.

[downunder]

that's a pretty good guide. A significant guard clash (i.e. beyond incidental) affects the fencer's ability to hold their weapons and so I call halt. Most referees I know feel the same way. It can be used very effectively tactically in epee and so I clamp down on it. The fencers know where I stand.

The problem here is consistency, which is much more important than arguing about how much guard contact is enough to call halt.

I'm sure the OP doesn't actually mind whether halt is called or not - just doesn't like it being called sometimes and not called other times.