USFA considering forcing members to use THS

[Redblade]

Capt. -

Apparently, they blocked out all rooms in all nearby hotels, meaning that there are (a) not rooms available, generally, (b) no rooms for points utilization, and (c) few, if any, similarly-classed alternatives in the immediate vicinity.

If the finalize their rooming requirements 30 days out, but we're required to book with THS (This Hotel Sucks?) before then, they have effectively excluded competition for rooms that would otherwise be available to the great unwashed.

That's the sort of market manipulation you'd think the state attorney general would be interested in.

[piste off]

Oh my heck, Gary is absolutely right. I just tried to use Marriott points to book a room and the closest is in Buckhead more than six miles away. I, too, prefer to be outside the loop but obviously the rooms in the city centre are gone.

I am trying to see if the same situation exists on Hilton Honors. Can you state what dates you are looking for? (Sorry, but the only national event that I see in Atlanta comming up is Summer Nationals, and I am not sure if that is what you looked into).

R-

[Allen Evans]

It has come to my attention that THS is already blocking rooms around the Atlanta venue, making points utilization and comparative pricing impossible for venue-area hotels. This information was forwarded to me by several parents who have attempted to make points reservations at traditional venue hotels.

Hmm...this could be signs of a vast conspiracy to deny US Fencing members a choice of hotels. Or it could be a sign that USA Volleyball championships (with hundreds of teams and a history of using this venue) will be using the Georgia World Congress Center around the same time frame that US Fencing will, and THS is anticipating needing a lot of rooms for them and us.

I don't have any facts of course, but that seems incidental to posting at this point.

[griffindm]

Hmm...this could be signs of a vast conspiracy to deny US Fencing members a choice of hotels. Or it could be a sign that USA Volleyball championships (with hundreds of teams and a history of using this venue) will be using the Georgia World Congress Center around the same time frame that US Fencing will, and THS is anticipating needing a lot of rooms for them and us.

I don't have any facts of course, but that seems incidental to posting at this point.

Allen,

I don't see the 2009-2010 Volleyball schedule up on their website yet (it came out last year in Sept), and they are not listed on the schedule for the venue http://www.gwcc.com/calendar/gwcc.html. In fact, nothing shows as conflicting with us so far at the Atlanta World Center website. Of course that can change between now and then.

[goepee]

An Open Letter to USFA

In this S&P issue, the buck stops with, Kurt and Kalle.

We have been going to NACs for the past 8 years, and in the past 3 years, we have never used THS and not because we have had a bad experience with them, it is because we have always been able to get a better deal elsewhere, whether monetarily or using points. Specific example, paying $79 for the $129 THS hotel in the Dallas SNC. To majority of the fencing families, THS has gotten redundant.

Why has this been so? It is because, in this age of advanced technology that resulted in the explosion of free information available to, literally at the tips of everyone's fingers, the THS BUSINESS MODEL HAS BECOME FLAWED. It is going in the direction of dinosaurs and the neighborhood travel agencies that have long gone out of business. Just browsing through the THS website will tell you that it is technologically outmoded.

Craig has suggested in a posting that first, we give THS a chance, then, if we find a better rate, we ask them to match it. That should not be our job, if THS has the right business model, and with the right technology, this should already be built into the system, but it isn't.

There will always be those 10% of the population who pay the premium offered by businesses like THS, whether out of ignorance, don't-care attitude, or as we have learned here, the Volleyball people. These people subsidize the 90% of us who are smarter. Now, USFA wants to herd all of us into the 10%. Fencing families, by nature of the sport, have to be the type of people who belong to the 90%, Kurt has under estimated our intelligence level.

The concept of the waiver is downright insulting. No parent, whether he/she be a hard-working blue collar worker or a Wall Street CEO, should have to ask for Christine's blessings on the issue on where to lay their heads at the end of the day during NAC's, that is not a fencing issue.

USFA has been very arrogant in handling this issue. It is more honorable to say mea culpa early on, people will respect them for that, instead, they have insisted and insisted, using terms like "soft rolling", tricks of scammers and schemers. We have been very hopeful when Kurt and Kalle assumed office, we have been one of their early supporters. We understand that USFA needs money, but a more honorable fundraising activity would have been supported.

Now, they have disappointed greatly the fencing populace with this, and the damage between them and their stakeholders may now be irreparable. From now on, everytime we see them walking around the venue, we would always equate them them with the S&P scam.

With the latest news that THS has made it impossible for fencing families to use their points to book NAC hotels, that has made us very upset and that drove us to post here for the first time, USFA has just declared war.

Craig, please make sure the message above reaches Kurt and Kalle.

Thank you.

[teacup]

Many hotels have higher rates on different nights, usually the Thursday nights are higher.

For example the Quality Inn in Des Moines lists Thursday night as $129.95 and Sunday night as $99.95. Theoretically, THS should offer the $99.95 cheaper rate to everyone for any night.

[gladius]

You should ask her manager, Cathy Zagunis, why she isn't promoting Mariel.

It is my understanding that Mariel Zagunis/Cathy Zagunis hired their own agent to get endorsements. They did so because obviously the USFA didn't do a thing in promoting the sport and Mariel after the first gold in Athens.

However, this cost Mariel her full scholarship at Notre Dame, thanks to the draconian restrictions any NCAA athlete is subject to (even Michael Phelps cannot compete in NCAA events because he has an agent which helps him with earnings of several millions).

I suppose the dilemma for someone of the caliber of Mariel (2 consec gold at the Olympics) is that if she fences NCAA she cannot get endorsements and if she gets endorsements they better be higher than the benefit of a "free" education at Notre Dame. This is the same problem for anyone at her level.

There is another consideration and it has to do with the USFA, namely what can the USFA do in terms of legitimate (for maintaining NCAA status) promotion which can benefit the deserving athlete AND the USFA and the sport of fencing? It does not take too much of a research to figure out that the USFA did and continue to do NOTHING and is not capable or willing to face/consider this admittedly not easy problem because their focus, if any, is somewhere else.

One would think that if the USFA had just one person competent in PR, that they could take the facts that you just posted about each of these fencers, fleshed out a little more details and human interest and craft a nice PR release. Newspapers are always looking for stories to fill their newspapers, and once you take the time (oh, perhaps 1/2- 1 hour of time for each piece; less if you are continuously in the process of doing press releases) to put out a press release, who knows how much it gets picked up -- it builds upon itself.

I repeatedly suggested to the USFA to do SOMETHING in this area and gave them the simple format used by the FIS which every Wednesday/Thursday before a weekend event publishes who goes where to compete (paid by the federation or at his expense) and everybody (if any) accompanying the athletes (CT, coaches, physicians, therapists, officers). They even write the previous results of the competition (who won, which Italian placed, the last time an Italian won).

Then, as soon as the competition is over, the results are texted by the coaches to the FIS which put them on the web site together with few "color commentaries" by the coaches/CT if present. This is done immediately even during the weekend and often these results appear before the same are posted on the FIE web site.

Eventually the USFA accepted my suggestion and the result is what Jeanna Mendoza posts now under the two categories, "En Garde, Ready, Fence" (before) and "Tales from the Strip" (after). Better than the nothing of before, but still much less than what the Italians do, and much less timely...

... as the bulk of these threads have shown, while the national office doesn't seem to take promotional activities as a serious responsibility worthy of their resources, it does seem to believe that managing, tracking and overcharging us for our hotel rooms is their business.

That is my point for bringing this up here and now.

I agree that Ms. Zagunis' manager would be for her own personal benefit, however, one would think that a manager would want to publicize her charge, and in effect, the USFA would also then get some publicity. As we see with Tim Morehouse, he gets publicity, and of course, the USFA then also gets some publicity.

I also agree that this is the second Olympiad in a row that we have had great results that the USFA can capitalize on, and that again we have a dearth of publicity -- opportunity squandered. So sad...

There are two separate issues:

1. Publicity of an exceptional athlete

This is the responsibility of the national federation. Who wouldn't go around and say, "Guess what? We have a two consecutive Olympic gold medal winner in WS AND in Beijing we hit the jackpot of all jackpots by having gold, silver, and bronze in individual WS!" Then one could take the time and explain that hitting this triplet in fencing is extremely difficult and extremely rare because of the DE path where people from the same nation can eliminate each other earlier on... In other words there is a story to tell here, a compelling one.

2. Athlete endorsements/sponsorships

This is obviuosly the responsibility of the individual athlete and his/her own decision.

When Aldo Montano got by a squeaker his gold in Athens (not a clear victory like Mariel by the way) he hired his own agent and as a result he got endoresements, TV exposure, which translated in revenue for him in the range of $1-2 million per year (or so he lets people believe). The next thing he did was to resign from the Carabinieri Corp for which he was competing and become a "free agent" just like Mariel decided to (had to) leave Notre Dame to be an independent agent.

The difference however is how the FIS and the USFA are handling these super (successful) athletes: the FIS promote them incessantly with publicity, press releases, etc., and rides on the star athlete's publicity coattails; the USFA totally ignore it because it focus on other issues...like THS![*]

Incidentally, in Italy almost 100% of the senior fencers (with significant results) are members of various military corps which "employ" these athletes to promote their own image in recruiting. As far as I know only two star athletes are free agents: Aldo Montano and Margherita Granbassi. Even Valentina Vezzali is member of the police force and not a free agent...


[*] For those who like "statisitics" here are some interesting numbers I could find. I was curious to see how often the names of the top world fencers are mentioned in the USFA web site as compared with the FIS web site.

FIS web site: www.Federscherma.it

I searched for Valentina Vezzali and Mariel Zagunis and used the FIS web site search engine for "Vezzali" and "Zagunis"

• "Vezzali" results: 802 hits out of 6451 (58 times in 2009)
  
• "Zagunis" results: 103 hits out of 6451 (11 times in 2009)

USFA web site: www.USfencing.org

I repeated this on the USFA web site:

• "Zagunis" results: 5 out of an unknown number of articles, but could actually find only 4 (2 in 2009)
  
• "Vezzali" results: 1 out of an unknown number of articles (0 in 2009).

Yes, yes, I hear you: USFA employees don't have time. Too much paperwork and too many runs to the fax machine during weekends to make sure it has paper, and this is BEFORE the THS waiver thing...

Somehow I wonder about adult supervision...



I apologize for the thread drift. I wanted to point to the different focus the USFA has when it involves the sport of fencing vis a vis the FIS, or the FFE, or any other national fencing federation.

[peet]

I'd heard that, but the word "debt" and "deficit" are so often misused I thought I might ask. As USFA is not a direct-service organization, it seemed more likely that "debt" was being used to indicate dwindling reserves. I suppose the 2008 balance sheet, income statement, statement of equity, and statement of cash flows are not available to the rank and file?

Jason

Sorry, in this case it is debt, not just deficit, and certainly not "dwindling reserves". I'm just a member, not directly involved in USFA finances, so some details I probably have wrong, but: During the previous quad, the USFA ran deficits for one or more seasons, which resulted in a debt reported variously between $1.1M and $1.8M (hard numbers are available, I just don't feel like looking them up). The USFA is now running at a profit (~ $240K for 08-09 according to the budget report linked by dberke), which if continued, would have us out of debt in a few years.

So i guess it was both deficit and debt. One that got us the other.

Now, as for cash reserves? Meaning actual money in the bank? Like bank balance? Who knows...

-p

[Capt. Slo-mo]

There is another consideration and it has to do with the USFA, namely what can the USFA do in terms of legitimate (for maintaining NCAA status) promotion which can benefit the deserving athlete AND the USFA and the sport of fencing? It does not take too much of a research to figure out that the USFA did and continue to do NOTHING and is not capable or willing to face/consider this admittedly not easy problem because their focus, if any, is somewhere else.

Gladius: no argument with the rest of your points, however; of all their other challenges, I can't really pin much blame on the USFA about the NCAA issues.

The NCAA is such a Byzantine, two-faced organization festooned with intrenched and largely incomprehensible rules that I don't think there really IS much the USFA could do to help the student fencers.

There are some NCAA rules in place which seem to allow for some USOC and USFA funding mechanisms to be accepted without loss of eligibility, but not much at all in the way of goodies acquired through the promotional pathway.

Of course, the NCAA and the sports networks are not above pocketing some change for "promoting" the athletes during March Madness, for instance.

[pillow]

Gladius: no argument with the rest of your points, however; of all their other challenges, I can't really pin much blame on the USFA about the NCAA issues.

The NCAA is such a Byzantine, two-faced organization festooned with intrenched and largely incomprehensible rules that I don't think there really IS much the USFA could do to help the student fencers.

There are some NCAA rules in place which seem to allow for some USOC and USFA funding mechanisms to be accepted without loss of eligibility, but not much at all in the way of goodies acquired through the promotional pathway.

Of course, the NCAA and the sports networks are not above pocketing some change for "promoting" the athletes during March Madness, for instance.

Would you folks consider putting the PR/NCAA stuff on another thread in order to maximize participation in this important issue?

[passata_sotto]

I am trying to see if the same situation exists on Hilton Honors. Can you state what dates you are looking for? (Sorry, but the only national event that I see in Atlanta comming up is Summer Nationals, and I am not sure if that is what you looked into).

R-

Yes, I just plugged in the 2nd - 6th of July to get an idea.

[flechewounds]

Yes, I just plugged in the 2nd - 6th of July to get an idea.

Looking for Hiltons in downtown Atlanta (searching regular rates, not points), only the Hampton Inn - Georgia Tech - showed availability at $143/night (7/2-7/6). Everything else was booked.

No Marriotts near the GA World Center show any availability. The closest one is GA Tech at $164/night.

Omnis are showing no availability during that period.

The Sheraton is showing some availability at $118 - but it is beyond reasonable walking distance (maybe someone wants to call their group booking people and ask them whether they were approached by THS or refused to deal with them).

Kayak is showing some availability in downtown at a variety of places - at better price points - don't know the quality or proximity to the GA World Center.

[teacup]

It seems that Cheerleading Teams are also required to book through THS.
http://www.thsweb.com/frameset-event...rnamentID=3220
One of their events is in Kansas City in December, another is in San Jose, January 22 - 23.

"This year American Championships / Spirit Team is going to require their customers to book their rooms at an approved American Championships / Spirit Team hotel; the approved partner hotel list is generated by the THS Company. Each participant going to any of American Championships / Spirit Team event must confirm their hotel bookings at an approved hotel at the time they register for the event.

Each team/club will be contacting hotels directly and confirming their room reservations by using the Hotel Group Code. THS will be working with American Championships / Spirit Team closely on where each team is booked and will validate the information with the hotels prior to arrival."

[flechewounds]

It seems that Cheerleading Teams are also required to book through THS.
http://www.thsweb.com/frameset-event...rnamentID=3220
One of their events is in Kansas City in December, another is in San Jose, January 22 - 23.

"This year American Championships / Spirit Team is going to require their customers to book their rooms at an approved American Championships / Spirit Team hotel; the approved partner hotel list is generated by the THS Company. Each participant going to any of American Championships / Spirit Team event must confirm their hotel bookings at an approved hotel at the time they register for the event.

Each team/club will be contacting hotels directly and confirming their room reservations by using the Hotel Group Code. THS will be working with American Championships / Spirit Team closely on where each team is booked and will validate the information with the hotels prior to arrival."

Teacup -

That is interesting. I think that this concept must be the brainchild of THS's management (who I've heard some interesting things about). I would expect that the same anti-trust concerns could be raised as well.

Our position is enhanced by our own bylaws, which grant "individual members in good standing" an absolute right to fence. USV doesn't have that provision in their bylaws - and I don't know about Cheerleading.

Maybe someone can suggest that they take a look at this thread. It may give their membership some ideas. If anyone knows a USAV or Cheerleading member, I'd point them here.

Gary

[Jvanhousen]

It seems that Cheerleading Teams are also required to book through THS."

Along w/ Football, Rowing, Soccer, Sychro Swim, Taekwondo, Tennis, Volleyball..
http://www.thsweb.com/

More info:
http://www.thsweb.com/frameset-event...rnamentID=3220

[keith]

Folks, the BOD is not lying down on this one, or endeavoring to screw the fencers. This is a STAFF decision. However, there remains a considerable difference of opinion about what is appropriately a "staff decision" what is an "EC decision" and what is a "BOD decision." Expect some resolutions to be presented at the fall meeting regarding this.

So we know that the BoD was not informed/consulted in advance. So would any of the following suggestions be slightly or terribly right/wrong;

The full EC was consulted on this proposal and formally approved it.

Some members of the EC were consulted on this prior to it being formally proposed and approved it.

Kurt informed the EC in much the same way as the BoD and forced Greg Dilworth to insert it into the budget at gunpoint.


Several of the current EC members were willing to contribute to these boards during the election. It seems a shame that they have wandered out to enjoy the summer weather just as things get interesting.

[teacup]

This is from the USFA website:

"In hopes to clarify a bit...
by Kurt Aichele / July 23, 2009
I spent an hour or so on the phone with Craig Harkins this morning who did an excellent job of asking clarifying questions regarding the information that has been posted regarding the Stay-and-Play program...

It's important to remember that I have stepped into this role as a former club owner and coach, and therefore am attempting to do everything in my power to REDUCE the costs associated with competing in this sport.

I do appreciate many of the constructive suggestions we have received as they are helping us shape this program as we roll it out. I hope reading through the results of our conversation is beneficial to each of you. "

Kurt's statement, "As we roll it out" doesn't make it seem that the policy is under debate but rather that this policy is now in effect.

[telkanuru]

I thought that was pretty clear already.

[flechewounds]

This is from the USFA website:

"In hopes to clarify a bit...
by Kurt Aichele / July 23, 2009
I spent an hour or so on the phone with Craig Harkins this morning who did an excellent job of asking clarifying questions regarding the information that has been posted regarding the Stay-and-Play program...

It's important to remember that I have stepped into this role as a former club owner and coach, and therefore am attempting to do everything in my power to REDUCE the costs associated with competing in this sport.

I do appreciate many of the constructive suggestions we have received as they are helping us shape this program as we roll it out. I hope reading through the results of our conversation is beneficial to each of you. "

Kurt's statement, "As we roll it out" doesn't make it seem that the policy is under debate but rather that this policy is now in effect.

Teacup, et al:

Every fact and action regarding this program indicate that this is a done deal. Some of Kurt's and all of Mark's statements indicate that it isn't.

Actions Speak Louder Than Words

[teacup]

I thought that was pretty clear already.

I guess I was still being hopeful since the first post on this thread was, "Starting on page 3 of the "Board of Directors Meeting" thread, there's been a discussion of a policy that the USFA is considering adopting -- which would force fencers to book their hotels through THS. If they don't, and fail to obtain a waiver (from THS), they would NOT BE ALLOWED TO COMPETE at that event, even if they registered for it. I am starting a new thread since I am surprised that more people are not commenting about this. An explanation that was posted goes as follows:....."