USFA considering forcing members to use THS

[Jvanhousen]

It's short.

I thought I told you we didn't need your report.

[flechewounds]

Actually, what it does is attempt to make it annoying to make a personal option, which isn't nearly the same thing

Not if their policy forecloses aggregators like Hotwire and Priceline. Actually, beyond that, they are forcing me to use a particular travel service - but the procurement and provision of travel services have, until this policy, been unrelated to the monopolized service that the USFA offers (tournament entry). Again, I don't see that anything has changed in the underlying nature of hotels or competitions that could remotely justify tying the two together.

For this very same reason, the USFA cannot mandate that I use Leon Paul equipment (although I often do). It can mandate that my equipment meet certain standards (related to safety and functionality), but beyond that, it cannot control the manufacturer that I select nor the vendor from which I purchase. And fencing equipment is clearly related to the sport of fencing.

On the other hand, if the USFA wants to supply my equipment and pay for my travel - it can cover me in Leon Paul, stick me on a cattle car from United and house me in the Aichele Inn. At that point, and only at that point, does it become their business.

[flechewounds]

What kind of crap equipment are you buying?

not all together silly - but with the family, there's 6 NACs, JOs and Nationals - by then it is an entire setup (with extra foils, etc.)

[edew]

Have I missed it somewhere or has anyone addressed how a Y10/12/14/Cadet/Junior fencer is supposed to reserve a hotel room with THS? If I fly out and I have 4 fencers crashing in my room I am certainly not competing, but I am the locally provided housing. I can barely remember to give my clubs CFO any receipts for that sort of thing, I certainly won't provide the USFA with them. Is the plan to punish fencers because their coach is a jerk? If so this could be the end of youth fencing as we know it...

Seriously though, can anyone explain to me how it would work if I (non-competitor) fly out with some of my fencers (who are not related to me) and they are staying in my room/suite/boat that was reserved under my name? Don't give me the "soft roll out" answer cause all that tells me is that no one has a plan for when the program goes all hard on us. Probably could have worded that better.

I would strongly suggest that you do not let youth fencers stay in the same room with you. That is against standard policy of almost any athletic organization, including the USFA's.

[edew]

That's not my report. That's my intro.

[Morale Officer]

That's not my report. That's my intro.

At least you're honest about it...eliminates any surprises later! lol

[occasionalfencer]

There is a fundamental problem with Stay and Play. The problems with THS are really incidental. If THS was a much better company they would not have the problems attracting new customers- we would all recommend it to each other, as we are now telling each other to stay away from it. The fundamental problem with Stay and Play is that the USFA would be requiring something other than compliance with fencing rules in order to fence. Another fundamental problem is the invasion of privacy aspect of the waiver system. Another fundamental problem is the increase in work for the staff due to handling all of this, especially the waivers. Another fundamental problem is the increase in ways for things to go wrong. The fact that there was a proposal to do this with a company that has as bad a reputation among fencers as THS was just an indication that this was done with no thought or research. But the idea is bad, bad, bad, even if the Board had chosen a good company.

But a good company would not need this kind of tying arrangement.

[hello?]

Actually, what it does is attempt to make it annoying to make a personal option, which isn't nearly the same thing

So, is it OK for them to make it "annoying?" We are paying for this experience.

[edew]

At least you're honest about it...eliminates any surprises later! lol

Nope, it's the surprise later that kills'em.

[DonnaP]

What if…

• “Live” example… Des Moines (Oct.
2009)
Before S&P After S&P
Room Rate $129 $109
Number nights 3 3
Total Cost to
member: $387 $327
Savings to member: $60
.

[/QUOTE]
What about the Surf-n-Turf Indigo Moon motel for $39…
• Let „em know…
– What about the all-inclusive Hilton Head
Villas…
• Let „em know…
– And if they can‟t deliver, we can still get
you a waiver..[/QUOTE]


You are giving rates as though you already know them? Another poster just stated the THS rate at the Renaissance at $119, yet you are stating $109. As THS has not yet posted the rooms or rates on their site - where are your numbers from? BTW - I must be one of the 8% who had their reservation messed up by THS not once, not twice, but four times! Four separate events over several years.

And who decides that THS is delivering or not?? Let's say I want the Indigo motel, and THS says "we can give you a "comparable" room." How comparable is comparable?? Same square footage of the room, same ammenities, same distance from venue, same parking fees, same location of local attractions or eateries?

Who is "we"?? Who will be in charge of approving and issuing the waivers?? What is the objective criteria for these waivers anyway - What will the turn around time be when a waiver is requested. What if my waiver is denied - what is my recourse - who will I call? What are my rights? What if I miss a registration deadline because I'm spending all my time trying to get my waiver?

What if I want to stay outside the immediate area because I want to do some touring while I'm there? I stayed near Dallas center as the area at/around Gaylord was deserted. It was a 30 minute drive - but I loved where I was. Is THS going to find rooms for me 15 miles away, 20 miles away? Does that a "waiver" situation? (such as staying in San Francisco and driving to Sacramento as an example, is THS going to do that for me?)

What it I don't want to give out my family's personal information on the waiver? How is THS supposed to "confirm" my local family info anyway? What is the process and what is the burden of proof?

What if I want to share a room with someone? How do I prove that?? Some of us work out our room arrangements only weeks/days before an event. Now let me guess - get a waiver - though I doubt there will be USFA staff available to deal with last minute waivers a few days before an event. Not to mention that since registration closes 8/10, does that mean we all have to have our roomies set up two months in advance?? Rediculous.

What if my child is going to room with another family? How do I prove that? And then there is that extra hassle to get that "waiver".

How do I prove I am using my timeshare or points to you? Why do I have to? And then I have to get that "waiver".

What if I live or stay 101 miles away - I have to get a hotel because you say so? Oh - and the extra hassle to get a "waiver".

If this has been done so successfully with other associations - then certainly there must be written policies and procedures as to how this all works in black and white. I think that full disclosure that addresses many of my as well as my friends concerns, would end all of these discussions. Data speaks louder than anything - show us the data that proves this is a benefit to we the members and not just we the organization.

And you know what - maybe it is a great plan - but like anything - if it is presented with minimal or missing information, and in a way where it feels like it is being forced down your throat - people will resist and question. It is the presentation of this plan that stinks - someone up at national office failed Organizational Behavioral Managment in MBA school. Rule #1 about change - it will always be resisted - and how managment presents it will determine whether it is embraced or not. Grade D-

[Grasshopper]

That tears it. I'm not reading any more USFA-oriented threads until Grasshopper posts.

I believe in Chaos Theory. One fencer flaps him gums in Japan and it affects fencing policy in America.

[Grasshopper]

Seconded.

My other comment is that I'm glad I live and fence in the European Union.

Yeah, over there they just spike your waterbottle with drugs and you miss the Olympics.

(Sorry couldn't resist that one. I'm an equal opportunity mud-slinger.)

[DonnaP]

We do not have to use them for NAC A and NAC B (or any other NAC this year) so lets not use them. Spread the word.

If this is true... Why has it not been made clear on the USFA website!!!! I posted earlier on another thread my concerns and multiple (4) reservation errors with THS. I have also contacted Christine via email. If this whole thing is truly "experimental" for the first year - the USFA managment should be clearly stating such CLEARLY on the web site. It is this type of lack of information that causes all the confusion and misunderstanding in the first place..... All the USFA executive team needs to do is post timely, clear, complete and concise information and they would have much better responses and feedback from the membership.

[pinkelephant]

Oh, so the whole of Europe is Italy now?

If you guys are universally opposed to this policy, you need to act together. If EVERYBODY refuses to book through THS, what are they going to do - disqualify you all? Similarly, you elected the people who made these decisions. Therefore there is some sort of democracy involved. Does your constitution allow for calling some sort of vote of no confidence, forcing another election mid-term?

[Grasshopper]

Oh, so the whole of Europe is Italy now?

Only in my dreams. Pass me a crumpet.

[piste off]

I thought using points was grounds for a waiver, apparently not.

F that. Pure and simple.

You are talking a potential impact on fencers that use them of several hundred dollars a year.

R-

[piste off]

There's your savings.

Corinne

And the cost of our time in dealing with the extra red tape?

EDIT - did not want to sound like we don't appreciate the hard work of the office folk, we do. just that that when considering the total cost we should factor in everyone's time.

R-

[piste off]

Is it a black card to light a soft roll on fire and throw it?

It should be a black card not to.

R-

[piste off]

I believe in Chaos Theory.

That sounds pro Stay & Play.

R-

[flechewounds]

Maybe the USFA could add a competitor's nightly room rate to their national points on a dollar-for-point basis. We can call them Group III points and add them directly to the point total. This way, if you stay in a $129/night hotel, you get 129 additional Group III points. Since Stay and Pay points would be available for each night in the hotel, without regard to competition days, a competitor staying in a single, $129 room could earn 616 extra national points! Ten days of nationals could earn 1290 National Points!

Group III points would accrue for each national tournament, allowing fencers to benefit from every Stay and Pay Stay! Furthermore, waivers would be reduced, as fencers living within walking distance of the venue would be encouraged to book at a Stay and Pay suite.

I think it would be appropriate to consider Stay and Pay participation in national team selection. After all, THS works hard to ensure that our team has the best... Our team should also work hard to ensure that THS has the best! This could be a real game-changer.

Room shares would, by definition, reduce the point total. If there were 4 people in the room, each person would earn 32.25 points per night. This would encourage higher occupancy, thus allowing the USFA to compete for Tier 1.5 cities like Tucson, Tucumcari, Tehachipi and Tonopah - thus encouraging more room reservations and greater USFA discounts.

NOTE: WHILE THIS IS A BIT FAR-FETCHED, THE OPPOSITE SITUATION - PREVENTING A COMPETITOR FROM FENCING BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T PAY TO STAY - COULD ELIMINATE SOMEONE FROM A TEAM... SO IT ISN'T THAT FAR-FETCHED, REALLY.