USFA considering forcing members to use THS

[flechewounds]

What do you mean tongue in cheek? I was already planning on doing this.

Maybe a new feature for askfred?

Actually, since it is for National competitions, it will have to go into Hung-a-Star.

[Capt. Slo-mo]

See...but since they are different and unconnected databases...who would be the wiser?

And for the record, I am in no way implying support for reckless dismembering of or subterfuge around an official USFA policy. That would be wrong.

[seak]

A couple thoughts after reading the waiver and the overview:

1) The distance for a waiver needs to be expanded. I routinely drive 3 hours to tournaments and back on the same day, I'm not sure why that shouldn't be an option for a NAC. Somewhere closer to 200 miles or so makes more sense.

2) If you are sharing a hotel rooms with other fencers how do you let the USFA/THS know this? It's not a friends couch, it is a THS approved hotel room, it's just not in my name.

3) If I'm reffing at a tournament, and staying in the USFA ref block, do I need to fill out a waiver?

I think the soft roll out is a good idea, as long as the USFA is not already obligated as it will give a chance for questions like these to hopefully be addressed and answered. I'm sure new and as yet unthought of questions will also arise.

[yeoldearmourer]

Nobody will tell were to stay. I spent over 20 years in the military to do and stay were I want .like nothing about staying at camp grounds. Come on Mark let us hear from you. I understand the reason behind this but this is the United States. Not China or Cuban we were rasie with the idea of freedom

[CMiner]

If you live within 100 miles of the tournament location, or you have family/friends/time-share/favorite camp site in the tournament city, or if the housing service (THS) is not able to provide a comparable hotel choice, you can fill out a Waiver and fax it to the National Office.

If the highlighted part means that if I get a waiver if I can reserve a room through Priceline for less than what THS will offer, than I no longer have a problem with this program.

Though, like Seak said, I'd like to see the "100 miles" expanded.

And as others have pointed out, there will be a race for the lower rated rooms, and those that aren't able to reserve far in advance will be forced into the more expensive rooms.

[occasionalfencer]

If the highlighted part means that if I get a waiver if I can reserve a room through Priceline for less than what THS will offer, than I no longer have a problem with this program.

Though, like Seak said, I'd like to see the "100 miles" expanded.

And as others have pointed out, there will be a race for the lower rated rooms, and those that aren't able to reserve far in advance will be forced into the more expensive rooms.

According to information people have gotten from other sources, it goes like this. You say that you can get a hotel room for cheaper from another source, so then THS will say that they will match that price, so you have to take what they offer as comparable. Unfortunately for you, when you got your Priceline, you had to pay for it. Then you have to pay again for the THS match. Get it?

A significant problem with this program IS the waivers. They add another level of complication, something else that can go wrong, with a company (THS) known for getting things wrong, and an association known to have problems with paperwork. At the very least, even if everything goes well, it would be a huge amount more work for the office. If we pay for their time, where is our savings?

[pillow]

If the highlighted part means that if I get a waiver if I can reserve a room through Priceline for less than what THS will offer, than I no longer have a problem with this program.

Though, like Seak said, I'd like to see the "100 miles" expanded.

And as others have pointed out, there will be a race for the lower rated rooms, and those that aren't able to reserve far in advance will be forced into the more expensive rooms.

Interesting. The part you have highlighted is totally vague and subject to interpretation. It could possibly allow anyone to opt out of the program. How will you get clarification of that phrase?

[fdad]

Interesting. The part you have highlighted is totally vague and subject to interpretation. It could possibly allow anyone to opt out of the program. How will you get clarification of that phrase?

The information provided does not include any idea who decides what "compatible" is. I don't think the "details" posted have added anything. Sadly, I think we are on course for a recall unless we hear something soon.

[darius]

Also remember, price point isn't everything. The place we stayed at Nationals was more expensive than the Gaylord, but they were extended stay suites, so we could pack our people in. They also offered free parking, free breakfast, shuttle, and wi-fi ... when I'm doing hotel research, I'm paying attention to those.

If THS isn't prepared to match the entire experience, why would I want to do business with them?

Still, there's a part of me that wonders how many of you are just kvetching on the internet and how many of you actually will send emails to the various decision-makers. To be fair, part of the problem is that who the decision-makers are is unclear; I'd assume the buck stops with Kurt, but USFA org charts aren't my specialty.

darius

[fdad]

Still, there's a part of me that wonders how many of you are just kvetching on the internet and how many of you actually will send emails to the various decision-makers. To be fair, part of the problem is that who the decision-makers are is unclear; I'd assume the buck stops with Kurt, but USFA org charts aren't my specialty.

My understanding is that the ED is not directly accountable to the membership, but is accountable to the BoD. The BoD is accountable to the membership.

[contre-Sixte]

As my friends know, I always fly to tournaments the morning of the event and fly home the same night, thus I never stay at ANY hotel. Where is the line on the waiver for "habitual insane practices". Seriously, I will not be forced to spend an extra 100 bucks to help out the USFA. [Nor will I come up with creative lies to circumvent a stupid policy.]

[edew]

They'll just require that you book your flights through the Olympic Desk and fly United with their special "USFA" rate (I used to try using the Olympic Desk, but I couldn't for the life of me get a rate that was even remotely close to cheaper than what I could find by a few phone calls; this was way before the use of the internet for airline bookings. I gave up on the Olympic Desk after the terrible service and lack of options and uncertainty in the itinerary at around 1994.)

You can get a waiver if you can show your before and after odometer readings or some number from a pedometer. Fly a different airline? Better be related to that pilot or something.

[fencerwallet]

I agree with Nannette. I read it. I still don't like it. Where is the provision in the "waiver" for "I'm a paramedic that makes next to nothing and has to scrimp and save to go to a huge tournament so I'm going to find a $30 hotel room (that THS doesn't support and won't support) and split it with someone else who is in the same boat I am." Where is the provision in the "waiver" for "I'm a Mom of 2 fencers and we're staying in one room with 2 of the other kids from the club because none of us can afford the THS prices." This was definitely not thought through and it definitely should have been presented to us as the membership BEFORE implimenting even a "soft rollout." This was NOT a good deal.

You do not get it. You are not important to the USFA leadership. If you cannot spend $129 a night for a $69 hotel room, you are obviously scum to leadership that thinks nothing about screwing the people whom they are supposed to serve. Like the corrupt cop on the street who hides behind the "protect and serve" phrase emblazoned on the squad car he drives to his payola drop site, the mission statement of this organization to promote the sport of fencing means nothing... unless, of course, you are wealthy.

Soon, of course, leadership will have weeded out you poor flotsam, and proper order will have been restored where the children of the wealthy again rule the fencing kingdom; not by talent, strength of character or resolve, but rather, perhaps because their wealthy dad gave Kurt Aichele his next job.

[K O'N]

Hmmm...I also see some financial opportunties for local fencers in an NAC city.

An underground economy where for, say...$10 a head, the hometown lad will vouch to the USFA that, in fact, Fencer A is staying with them during the competition.


By the way, Craig, we need a new smiley for satire and/or tongue-in-cheek posts...

Actually, as far as I could see on the waiver all you need is an address in the city, right? There was no space on the waiver for a phone number at the local address. So you give them a local address and that's it? Really? How are they going to check on that?

So either they're going to ask for a local phone number, or they're not going to check on it at all. If the latter, fine, I bet Google Maps and I can come up with an address within 100 miles of the venue if we try real hard. If the former, I guess I'll give them someone's phone number. How do you tell where a phone is these days, anyway? I mean honestly, do they really think they can check up on this stuff?

A few days ago I joked that there might be on-strip protests against people who falsified S&P waivers. I wonder if I was joking. That seems to me to be the only way the USFA could keep a lid on this. That really does suck, you know?

K O'N

[gatun.czone]

You do not get it. You are not important to the USFA leadership.

While I am very unhappy with the Stay and Play deal, I did receive a quick reply from Christine Strong Simmons. I think they do care. If they did not before, the activity on fencing.net would certainly have caused a change of heart. Please consider dropping Christine an email. She is going to need specifics (how THS screwed you and what type of waiver you think isn't covered - interestingly enough I found out waivers for people who stay at military lodges are covered). Those points, our past experience with THS and our need for much more flexible, less intrusive waivers, are exactly what the USFA leadership needs to hear.

Nannette

[teacup]

I thought using points was grounds for a waiver, apparently not.

[flechewounds]

Over the past couple of days, both publicly on these forums and privately by some board members, I've been accused of being alarmist and of jumping the gun - making assumptions based upon industry experience and factual information from other sports using THS. Guilty - I dug for the best information available, I applied my industry knowledge, and I shared my conculsions.

Still, they were correct - I was jumping the gun. The program as announced is actually far worse than expected.

It's time to evangelize against this one. Tell your friends, your fellow fencers, your coaches, your parents, your kids - everyone - and get the word out. Make sure that they let the administration know (send Kurt and Kalle messages) exactly how they feel about Stay and Pay (whether good or bad). It's going to take more than those of us on F-Net to stop this train... but it must be stopped.

On occasion Chicken Little may be right - The Sky is Falling!

[pacer]

I know of several fencers who stick to a special diet, so when they travel they always stay at a room/suite with a kitchen. I don't believe THS always has hotels that meet that requirement. Ummm, maybe camped in front of the refrigerator qualifies as a "favorite campsite".

[fencerwallet]

Over the past couple of days, both publicly on these forums and privately by some board members, I've been accused of being alarmist and of jumping the gun - making assumptions based upon industry experience and factual information from other sports using THS. Guilty - I dug for the best information available, I applied my industry knowledge, and I shared my conculsions.

Still, they were correct - I was jumping the gun. The program as announced is actually far worse than expected.

It's time to evangelize against this one. Tell your friends, your fellow fencers, your coaches, your parents, your kids - everyone - and get the word out. Make sure that they let the administration know (send Kurt and Kalle messages) exactly how they feel about Stay and Pay (whether good or bad). It's going to take more than those of us on F-Net to stop this train... but it must be stopped.

On occasion Chicken Little may be right - The Sky is Falling!

Sending messages such as emails is useless, prompting lip service while accomplishing nothing. Those against this policy need to voice displeasure by quantifiable means such as not using THS, period. Nothing short of a complete THS disaster for NAC-A (before Stay & Pay counts) will be needed to show leadership the collective financial wherewithal of the membership pockets they seek to fleece.

[Jvanhousen]

My opinion is that if you don’t see the potential for bureaucratic snafu here, you don’t have much of an imagination.
I have ample opportunities to butt heads w/ hotel management over a plethora of issues on my own, thank you very much, without adding another layer of authority to deal with.

But my main concern is actually the response Cadvet received from the USFA Vice President in response to his parody post of ‘Last Call’ :

<<Your not being funny by posting on Fencing.net and stating it as something that took place at the BOD Meeting which is absolutely false. You have sunk to a new low. >>

Firstly, it was insulting (and puzzling) that he thought ANY member that actually read it would not clearly recognize it as satire. But secondly, when he accuses Gary (A section chair) of having ‘sunk to a new low’, which came off as a cheap personal attack, was he speaking on behalf of the USFA? The signature appears to support that notion.


“This conversation has become boring!”
Dieter from the Sprockets