USFA considering forcing members to use THS

[wwalkerjr]

Originally Posted by teacup

Will we be forced to fly United?

The THS website does state that they do flight arrangements with their "sister organization".

One thing that is woefully absent from the THS website is any information about THS. Is it public or private? Who owns or runs it? Who are the officers?

I only know that it is in Hackensack and that it provides services to volleyball and fencing.

[Capt. Slo-mo]

From the USFA/THS waiver page:

Please provide the address where you will be staying during the tournament:
(spot for address)

I understand that the information above will be verified and that this Special Waiver must be received two weeks prior to the National Tournament.


I can imagine the conversation now:

Phone: "Ring. Ring. Ring."

Address Dude (AD): "Uh...dude, it's like 3:30 in the afternoon. Why you calling so early?

USFA: "Hello, this is Tota Lee Overwurkt, from the USFA offices in Colorado Springs."

AD: (long pause) Is that, like the Federal Pharmu--afirim--Farmacological Enforcement, or something?"

USFA: "No sir, not at all. We're the NGB for US Fencing. We have been told that a David Derobe is staying with you during the October NAC. Is this true?"

AD: (longer pause) "NGB? Uhhhh....Dave's not here, man."

USFA: "Yes, I understand he's not there now. What I'm asking is will he be staying with you from October 3-6, 2009?"

AD: "Who is this? Granma? Totally not chill pretending to be a narc again!!!"

USFA: (long pause) "No, sir, I'm Ms Overwurkt from US Fencing, and we're trying to approve a waiver for David Derobe so he doesn't get disqualified from competing at the October NAC for not booking his room through THS."

AD: (sound of beer can popping open in background.) "Dave's not here, man."

USFA: (longer pause) "Yes sir, I believe you mentioned that already. What I'm trying to ascertain is if David will be utilizing your living space instead of THS accommodations in October."

AD: "Will he be bringing the bags?"

USFA: "Ummm, since this is a four day stay waiver request from THS, I'm...well...certain he'll have bags."

AD: "Not bags of THS...he better bring the bags of THC!" (30 seconds of snorting and snickering is heard, followed by the sound of a Costco-sized bag of Tostitos being opened and poured into a bowl)

USFA: "Sir. Sir! Are you still there? Can you please just confirm to me that David Derobe will staying with you during the October NAC."

AD: "ohhh...shure....David, the pirate guy with the cutlass who's always running around in those freaky white unitard thingies?"

USFA: "Yes sir, that David, although to be technical, it's called a sabre."

AD: "Ahhh, geez, sorry, lady. I didn't get you what you wanted right away. Dave's not here, man."

USFA: (even longer pause) "Thank you for your cooperation."

Phone: "Click."

AD: (looks at phone in disbelief) "Woooah. Dave's girlfriend works for the Feds now? She's got issues, man..."

[teacup]

It is great if THS can get better room rates, more hotel choices and by doing so increase revenue for the USFA. The problem is making the choice of a fencer's hotel accommodations a requirement in order to compete. The USFA should encourage everyone including all non fencers; parents, coaches, armourers, referees, vendors, siblings, etc. to choose THS. Under this proposal a huge group of national event attendees will still have a choice since stopping them from competing won't affect them, it's just the fencers who won't have a choice anymore.

[DLEE]

Originally Posted by flechewounds

http://usfencing.org/news/article/14494

Note that the waiver does only allows for folks living within 100 miles or staying at families/timeshares/private places.

Does anyone see the problem here?

Unacceptable.

[occasionalfencer]

Originally Posted by Capt. Slo-mo

From the USFA/THS waiver page:

Please provide the address where you will be staying during the tournament:
(spot for address)

I understand that the information above will be verified and that this Special Waiver must be received two weeks prior to the National Tournament.


I can imagine the conversation now:

(Dave's not here...)

USFA: (even longer pause) "Thank you for your cooperation."

Phone: "Click."

AD: (looks at phone in disbelief) "Woooah. Dave's girlfriend works for the Feds now? She's got issues, man..."

So, I have got to know, does he get the waiver or not?

[dekko]

Is this the kind of forward thinking and transperancy we can expect from the new reich? errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr rr regime?

Well played Kurt and new officers. The ole, "Hey, what's that?" then the bat to the head routine, nice.

Like I said, Brace for Impact. Hope the bill is paid up the Donnie, he will be busy.

[Capt. Slo-mo]

Originally Posted by occasionalfencer

So, I have got to know, does he get the waiver or not?

You'll just have to wait until he checks in to find out...

[Joe biebel]

I just read the other thread with the particulars of the program and the waiver.

I'm sorry, but this is just so wrong.

I do not cede my travel decisions to anyone or any organization. The USFA should have it's charter revoked for this.

If this was Kurt's proposal, I would like to see Kurt fired and both Kurt and THS investigated.

In my opinion, THS should be banned from any dealings with the USFA.

I do not ask for anyone's permission or approval for my choices of accomodations, and the USFA is not to be privey to my private information, except that which I choose to volunteer.

I will need to see what I signed that gives the USFA the power to take away, or limit my accomodations choices for me and where the power to demand my personal information, not pursuant to my fencing has come from.

I hope they expect to make a lot of money from treating us like they own us. They will probably need it to defend against the lawsuits (both frivolous and with merit) that are sure to follow.

Finally, the pschological game that is being played here is insulting as well. I think several key people are being told to "tow the company line" on this issue. I can't believe the people I respect could really believe that this is acceptable or a good idea.

I won't do it. I will not cede my decisions to the USFA.

This is such an insult to the membership, that I would like to know the whole story, so that I could at least attempt to punish the persons responsible.

Boy, I wish I had felt this inflamed at nationals, I would have slaughtered my opponants.

If there are any attorneys out there in f.net-land that have an opinion on this (other than a USFA affiliated attorney), I would like to know what you think about stopping this. I'm mad enough to spend my own money on this to tell the the USFA where they can stay (go). If they don't want to go there, they can always apply for a waiver.

The USFA needs money, so this is okay? No! Hell no!

We don't have to take this. Let's get rid of anyone in the USFA that wants to limit our options for profit. They need to go. We don't need to be afarid of the USFA, they are our employees. They don't get to make decisions regarding our personal lives. Only when I am in the venue of an event, do I agree to be subject to their rules and regulations.

[pillow]

Sorry to see Christine's name on the USFA site explaining the THS plan.

Anyone out there practice law in Colorado?

[Morale Officer]

Anyone else feel the need to buy stock in the KY company?

[Redblade]

I don't appreciate anyone telling me where I can or cannot stay on my own time. I don't give up my privacy until I've stepped into the venue to compete.

[flechewounds]

Maybe it's time for Kurt to host a F-Net Town Hall Meeting and actually face the membership... that may be a good idea.

Aside from feeling somewhat shanghaied by the "waiver policy," let's look at this objectively and see if there can be some way to make this into a bit less of a problem. Note, I'm not suggesting that it be accepted, but I am suggesting that the program may be more acceptable with some significant changes (objectionable intrusion into private lives aside).

1) Rate comparison and restrictions should include AAA, AARP, government and military rates, not just group rates. This acknowledges the simple fact that fencers don't generally travel as a "team," and their point of comparison is different than that of team sports like volleyball.

2) One concern that has been voiced is how rooms will be allocated between the "cheap" versions and the "expensive" ones. If, for example, I want the $79 option, but those are booked, am I forced to accept the $99. $109 or $129 option? One reasonable exception would be to say that if THS cannot confirm our first-choice price point 6 weeks out, we're free to do what we want on our own. Of course, that will mean that the "cheap" version will sell out, but committing individuals to spend more than their selected price point is seriously objectionable.

3) If I want to stay out by the airport at a Motel 6 or Super 8, I should be free to do so. Drawing a 3 mile circle (or something like that) around the venue and limiting the exclusive THS area to that circle may address some of these concerns. Beyond that, it is my inconvenience and should be my choice.

4) Another choice would be to have THS provide the list of venue hotels and make the requirement that you must use THS if you stay in the venue hotels. The USFA could then require your local address and vet whether you used the program for that hotel. If you choose to stay elsewhere, that would be your business. This would address the serious concern raised by many that we'll be forced to stay in places that are too expensive or in locations that we don't want to be in.

These changes would address a number of the conceptual concerns about this program. There are still substantial operational concerns that are separate from this post, but in an effort to be constructive, I figured I toss these out.

G

[occasionalfencer]

Originally Posted by pillow

Sorry to see Christine's name on the USFA site explaining the THS plan.

I am too. I am wondering if she is being set up to be the fall guy if this blows up.

[silver2e]

Originally Posted by flechewounds

http://usfencing.org/news/article/14494

Note that the waiver does only allows for folks living within 100 miles or staying at families/timeshares/private places.

Both links go to the waiver document. How does one find the overview page?

[occasionalfencer]

Originally Posted by Joe biebel

I just read the other thread with the particulars of the program and the waiver.

I'm sorry, but this is just so wrong.

I do not cede my travel decisions to anyone or any organization. The USFA should have it's charter revoked for this.

If this was Kurt's proposal, I would like to see Kurt fired and both Kurt and THS investigated.

In my opinion, THS should be banned from any dealings with the USFA.

I do not ask for anyone's permission or approval for my choices of accomodations, and the USFA is not to be privey to my private information, except that which I choose to volunteer.

I will need to see what I signed that gives the USFA the power to take away, or limit my accomodations choices for me and where the power to demand my personal information, not pursuant to my fencing has come from.

I hope they expect to make a lot of money from treating us like they own us. They will probably need it to defend against the lawsuits (both frivolous and with merit) that are sure to follow.

Finally, the pschological game that is being played here is insulting as well. I think several key people are being told to "tow the company line" on this issue. I can't believe the people I respect could really believe that this is acceptable or a good idea.

I won't do it. I will not cede my decisions to the USFA.

This is such an insult to the membership, that I would like to know the whole story, so that I could at least attempt to punish the persons responsible.

Boy, I wish I had felt this inflamed at nationals, I would have slaughtered my opponants.

If there are any attorneys out there in f.net-land that have an opinion on this (other than a USFA affiliated attorney), I would like to know what you think about stopping this. I'm mad enough to spend my own money on this to tell the the USFA where they can stay (go). If they don't want to go there, they can always apply for a waiver.

The USFA needs money, so this is okay? No! Hell no!

We don't have to take this. Let's get rid of anyone in the USFA that wants to limit our options for profit. They need to go. We don't need to be afarid of the USFA, they are our employees. They don't get to make decisions regarding our personal lives. Only when I am in the venue of an event, do I agree to be subject to their rules and regulations.

Would you please write all this, word for word, to Christine, Kurt, Kalle, and anyone else at the USFA you can think of? Please?

[Redblade]

Originally Posted by wwalkerjr

We should be grateful that the USFA has given us all a wonderful incentive to make dear friends of fencers in many cities throughout the US.
For example, I have just discovered that I have some wonderful friends and family in several US cities including Des Moines, Pittsburgh, San Jose, Dallas and Atlanta.

The waiver info verification process is going to be amusing.

[wahrman]

I realise this is the sort of thing they claim to be trying to rectify with this monstrosity but I don't have much confidence when I've gotten better prices on my own at venue hotels than THS.

Originally Posted by flechewounds

4) Another choice would be to have THS provide the list of venue hotels and make the requirement that you must use THS if you stay in the venue hotels. The USFA could then require your local address and vet whether you used the program for that hotel. If you choose to stay elsewhere, that would be your business. This would address the serious concern raised by many that we'll be forced to stay in places that are too expensive or in locations that we don't want to be in.

[Capt. Slo-mo]

Hmmm...I also see some financial opportunties for local fencers in an NAC city.

An underground economy where for, say...$10 a head, the hometown lad will vouch to the USFA that, in fact, Fencer A is staying with them during the competition.


By the way, Craig, we need a new smiley for satire and/or tongue-in-cheek posts...

[flechewounds]

Originally Posted by pillow

Sorry to see Christine's name on the USFA site explaining the THS plan.

Delegating this to Christine was criminal. Period.

[wahrman]

What do you mean tongue in cheek? I was already planning on doing this.

Maybe a new feature for askfred?

Originally Posted by Capt. Slo-mo

Hmmm...I also see some financial opportunties for local fencers in an NAC city.

An underground economy where for, say...$10 a head, the hometown lad will vouch to the USFA that, in fact, Fencer A is staying with them during the competition.


By the way, Craig, we need a new smiley for satire and/or tongue-in-cheek posts...