USFA considering forcing members to use THS

[edew]

Actually, not. The Atlanta number Brad quoted was total room nights - and includes multiple night stays. That's how these things are calculated.

Correct. Room-nights are what matters for hotels. So 1000 room-nights could be 500 rooms for 2 nights or 200 rooms for 5 nights or 100 rooms for 10 nights. Doesn't matter for the hotel. (Got a quick and thorough intro to the hotel biz when LOC-ing the first Summer Nationals in 1997.)

[oiuyt]

Just as a side note, the 6162 number does not, necessarily, represent 100% of all athletes booking through THS. It is the projected number of rooms that would be booked through THS under S&P.

4. Will the THS guarantee "block" bookings? If a club is bringing 20 fencers, can the THS be required to place all the fencers in the same hotel, in reasonable proximity?

Side tangent conversation:

Is this (the reasonable proximity part) a reasonable guarantee to expect?

I book a team of 15-18 athletes and a couple of coaches into a number of hotels each year. Always as a group reservation, frequently with hotels that we frequent on an annual basis, and booking directly with the hotel.

While we strongly prefer the entire team to be in a block of adjacent rooms, it simply doesn't always happen. Granted when it doesn't we can usually work with the front desk staff to minimize the spread, there have been times when our team has had 10 or 11 rooms across 4 floors of a hotel.

Expecting a guarantee that the block all be in the same property (up to the available room limit of the hotel at the time of the booking), I understand. Wanting the block to be in close proximity within the property, I understand. Expecting that the block will ALWAYS be within close proximity I don't see. It is, in my opinion, not a realistic guarantee to demand and one which will be unable to always be adhered to if given.

-B

[mfp]

How's it Work?

Members would register for the event just as they do.

Members would then book their lodging through THS as many do now.

THS compares these lists…any participant without a THS lodging is contacted to make a reservation or request a waiver.

Waivers allow athletes and their families to bypass the Stay and Play program for a variety of reasons

Contacted how? It's not clear from the above if Kurt's plan involves ...

1) having the USFA transfer/share/disclose personal member contact information to third party THS so THS can market additional services OR 2) he plans to use USFA's staff itself to contact participants to market a 3rd party's service.

Which is it?

And how would "1" work considering the fact that people have the right to Opt Out of such disclosure of personal info under a variety of privacy laws?

OK, so things that need a bit more explanation:

1. Who at the USFA will coordinate waivers? What is the anticipated cost and person hours required to do the waiver system? What appeal system will be put in place for a denied waiver? What are the specific benchmarks for approving waivers?

The entire idea of having the USFA "grant waivers" to partipants is bass ackwards.

The USFA instead could ask participants at the time of registration whether they wish or not to in effect "grant the USFA a waiver" by Opting In to the sharing of their personal contact info with THS to enable all their supposed wonderful services and benefits.

[flechewounds]

Folks -

It's here - the long awaited Stay and Pay program information. However, both links on the site point to the waiver document - at this time, at least, the other document is not posted.

Frankly, with regard to waivers our worst fears were realized. Here are grounds for the waiver (from the USFA document - for those questioning the facts):

-------
Stay to Play Special Waiver:

I am requesting this Waiver for the following reason (please check the statement that applies):

o I live within 100 miles of the tournament location.

o I have family/friends/time-share or other private location that live in the city where the tournament will be held.

Please provide the address where you will be staying during the tournament:

__________________________________________________ ______

I understand that the information above will be verified and that this Special Waiver must be received two weeks prior to the National Tournament. I also understand that I will receive either an email or fax response to my Special Waiver request.

_____________________ ___________________
Fencer's Signature and Date Signature of Parent or Guardian for Minor
-------

So, the program will be "verified." The grounds for the waiver are 100 miles away, family/friends/time share or private location (e.g., not another hotel) and you have to provide the address.

[flechewounds]

http://usfencing.org/news/article/14494

Note that the waiver does only allows for folks living within 100 miles or staying at families/timeshares/private places.

Does anyone see the problem here?

[gatun.czone]

I read the posting at the USFA website and the waiver. I still don't like it. I really think this needs to be presented differently to the membership. Instead of a "soft rollout", which makes the hard/mandatory part sound inevitable, why not do a 2 year testing phase? THS could prove itself to the USFA consumers. I realize that this means USFA and THS will not get whatever the pot of gold at the end of signing the contract is, but I think earning the goodwill of the membership would be more valuable. This whole thing was very poorly handled.
Nannette

[CadetVet]

By the way, f-net is blocking me from simply posting the waiver language of the S&P program waiver under the other ID (it is in moderation). search for it on the usfa site and read it for yourselves...

[keith]

By the way, f-net is blocking me from simply posting the waiver language of the S&P program waiver under the other ID (it is in moderation). search for it on the usfa site and read it for yourselves...

One of the possible grounds for a waiver seems to have evaporated between the power point and the official waiver. Typo?

I wonder how the USFA intends to verify all information and have a morbid curiosity as to the punishment if you are found not to be resident at the address given....

[Gav]

EH? This is pretty messed up...

[Capt. Slo-mo]

Is this (the reasonable proximity part) a reasonable guarantee to expect?

I book a team of 15-18 athletes and a couple of coaches into a number of hotels each year. Always as a group reservation, frequently with hotels that we frequent on an annual basis, and booking directly with the hotel.

While we strongly prefer the entire team to be in a block of adjacent rooms, it simply doesn't always happen. Granted when it doesn't we can usually work with the front desk staff to minimize the spread, there have been times when our team has had 10 or 11 rooms across 4 floors of a hotel.

Expecting a guarantee that the block all be in the same property (up to the available room limit of the hotel at the time of the booking), I understand. Wanting the block to be in close proximity within the property, I understand. Expecting that the block will ALWAYS be within close proximity I don't see. It is, in my opinion, not a realistic guarantee to demand and one which will be unable to always be adhered to if given.

-B

Yet it's not something unreasonable to ask for, if indeed THS is somehow now able to access much larger inventories of rooms with their new-found purchasing power. I only bring it up as an item for discussion because of THS' alleged inability to do this for USA Volleyball (which presumably has much more interest in "block booking" because of the team nature of the sport) has cropped up in their discussion boards.

[counterattack]

http://usfencing.org/news/article/14494

Note that the waiver does only allows for folks living within 100 miles or staying at families/timeshares/private places.

Does anyone see the problem here?

It truly is unacceptable. I just can't believe this is being proposed, let alone soft-rolled out. The USFA is my sports federation not my mandatory god damned travel agent.

The only person I let pick my travel arrangements is my work because THEY ARE PAYING. If my work tried to pick my options and then expected me to pay... well it wouldn't even happen. Because they wouldn't try because it is patently stupid, limiting, and controlling.

-philip

[wwalkerjr]

We should be grateful that the USFA has given us all a wonderful incentive to make dear friends of fencers in many cities throughout the US.
For example, I have just discovered that I have some wonderful friends and family in several US cities including Des Moines, Pittsburgh, San Jose, Dallas and Atlanta.
I wonder if this will be applied to ROCs in the future, killing this worthwhile outreach in its infancy.

[teacup]

My question, though who knows how to determine the answer, is how many fencing related people stay at THS hotels?

For every entrant there may be two, three, four or more related people than don't actually fence. Also one person may fence more than one event and events are not always on consecutive days and contrary to the USFA's advice many do fly home the night of their event.

So if there are 4000 entries, over the course of four days are there 10,000 fencing related people staying in rooms? Rooms can be occupied by 1 - 4 people.

If there are that could be 10,000 - 40,000 room nights.

If the USFA/THS is anticipating only 6,000 rooms nights, that seems like a small percentage of the total number of fencer related people using THS.

How will fencing related people be forced to book through THS?

[Morale Officer]

I agree with Nannette. I read it. I still don't like it. Where is the provision in the "waiver" for "I'm a paramedic that makes next to nothing and has to scrimp and save to go to a huge tournament so I'm going to find a $30 hotel room (that THS doesn't support and won't support) and split it with someone else who is in the same boat I am." Where is the provision in the "waiver" for "I'm a Mom of 2 fencers and we're staying in one room with 2 of the other kids from the club because none of us can afford the THS prices." This was definitely not thought through and it definitely should have been presented to us as the membership BEFORE implimenting even a "soft rollout." This was NOT a good deal.

[occasionalfencer]

I have asked repeatedly what a soft roll is. It sounds to me like it is meant to feel good, without actually being defined, so that it will mean whatever they want it to mean. Not good communication in my opinion.

[keith]

I have asked repeatedly what a soft roll is. It sounds to me like it is meant to feel good, without actually being defined, so that it will mean whatever they want it to mean. Not good communication in my opinion.

It's a special massage technique practiced by some managers to help them get their way.

Kurt seems to have a very good soft roll.

[teacup]

THS doesn't list everyone who stays in a room.

Some hotels don't let those under 18 or 21 check in. Where are these young adults going to stay?

[gladius]

The entire idea of having the USFA "grant waivers" to partipants is bass ackwards.

The USFA instead could ask participants at the time of registration whether they wish or not to in effect "grant the USFA a waiver" by Opting In to the sharing of their personal contact info with THS to enable all their supposed wonderful services and benefits.

Ever since I first read of this plan and the comments against it I asked myself when will somebody state that the "waiver granting" was as you say bass ackwards?

Thank you for pointing at the obvious flaw of this or any such plan.

Suppose tomorrow the USFA makes a deal with GM which boils down to tell all its members that when they drive to a NAC they better drive a GM SUV which GM will sell/lease/rent to them at 15% under sticker price. The USFA to get a kickback from GM for each GM SUV sold/leased/rented to an USFA NAC competitor. But if you drive a non GM SUV, you must ask for a waiver from GM/USFA in order to be allowed to compete...

Of course a "better" case would be to say that if you want to buy/lease/rent a GM SUV through the USFA/GM partnership you can get a 15% discount from the sticker price and this is a "perk" you may enjoy as an USFA member and competitor.

Now repeat the latter plan with THS instead of GM, and everybody is free to go raise some real money to help the USFA get out of the red ink without further taxing its members.

[teacup]

Will we be forced to fly United?

[edew]

A soft roll is usually something like a sourdough roll or maybe a french roll. Hard rolls are like dutch rolls or maybe a German style. One that has a hard crust. I generally prefer the soft roll, mainly because as a large sandwich, it's easier to bite down on a soft roll when there's lots of sandwich filling between the bread.