Since the deficit accumulated by the USFA impacts all of its members, not only the relatively small subset that fence in NACs, should the surcharge be more fairly applied to membership renewal instead of NAC registration?
I'm not so sure of that. We haven't ever been told exactly where the deficit went, although there were claims that the HPC blew it's budget.
The THS proposal isn't needed because the USFA is unable to run a positive budget on current cash flow. The extra funds are need because as the quad progresses increasing amounts of money will be needed for athlete support.
The idea of an annual budget for the USFA is a bit of a con - especially in the first years of the quad.
I suggest that instead of the THS deal, the USFA impose a one year NAC surcharge of $15 per registration to address the budget deficit. It would be a separate line-item called "2009-10 USFA Recapitalization" and would not be automatically renewed for the 2010-11 season.
No extra administration required (and no administrative expenses), no ill-will among the fencing community, no lawsuits, no long-term price increase, no "behind the scenes" wheeling and dealing. Just an honest effort to make the sport solvent again.
That is my suggestion.
(Regarding the part I bolded):
I'm not so sure that's true. I'll bet a fee increase would incur a fair amount of ill will, especially considering that it would go to cover a preventable deficit accrued by mismanagement.
No one likes to pay for someone else's mistakes.....
That said, if given a choice between (paying more) and (paying more AND losing choice AND risking ineligibility), I guess I'd choose paying more. But good luck communicating that to the membership and getting them (as a whole) to agree.
(Regarding the part I bolded):
I'm not so sure that's true. I'll bet a fee increase would incur a fair amount of ill will, especially considering that it would go to cover a preventable deficit accrued by mismanagement.
No one likes to pay for someone else's mistakes.....
That said, if given a choice between (paying more) and (paying more AND losing choice AND risking ineligibility), I guess I'd choose paying more. But good luck communicating that to the membership and getting them (as a whole) to agree.
-p
Agreed that there are issues in figuring out what happened, who's responsible, etc., but the administration has made it clear that they're not going to hold anyone accountable for those issues (that was a big thread after the February meeting).
Taken at face value - that they need money because of past mistakes, I'd rather have it up-front, controllable and easy to administer and further have it have no effect on our choice or eligibility.
If you read the stuff I posted from US Volleyball, it really looks like a sweetheart deal for THS and the USFA - and the "money out of thin air" will actually be coming out of the fencing families' pockets in a way that is nearly impossible to control or change in the future.
Let me just say that the last Summer Nationals are probably going to cause me to miss a NAC or cut back on fencing in some way or other. The USFA is going to end up paying for higher venue/hotel costs. Just not immediately. This is a horrible idea.
Just to throw more wood on the fire - this also clearly is a major hassle for people who have hotel preferences. Points with the hotel, credit card points, staying preferences, friends/relatives who work for a given hotel chain - is the USFA/THS going to hand out waivers for every one of those concerns as well? It might just be me, but I have a good number of friends who picked a given hotel based on their existing perk packages...
I book the accomodation for my boys and for our club when we have a coach and/or additional fencers going. I always use Marriott hotels which are always less expensive than the THS hotels.
There are several factors which would not be satisfied:
1. Some people do not like to stay in a hotel full of fencers.
2. Some people would like to have a kitchen when they are going to be there for several days.
3. Some people would like free breakfast for herself and multiple hungry boys.
4. Some people need more sleeping space for two adults and three teenagers than what is in your average hotel room
5. Some people save points from the many fencing trips and use them to pay for rooms at the end of the year when they are out of money.
We stayed at a Marriot TownSuites for Nationals and had a suite with two rooms with queen sized beds, a sofa bed, a kitchen, free hot breakfast for $99 per night and I earned points. True, this rate had been negotiated by another group, but when the clerk found out we were also a fencing club (three large rooms) the hotel extended the rate to us as well.
There is no way we would have the room and the price through THS
" ... or spend fifty years learning to begin to learn to beat your adversary at fencing. After that you can start on mathematics, until it is time to learn to plough.” White, T.H. The Once and Future King (emphasis added)
However, I will grant you that USFA definitely needs a better way to solicit and process feedback from the membership on issues that directly affect the membership.
Originally Posted by pillow
May I remind you that the current President won a fairly close election as a result of directly soliciting votes from the membership in order to beat T. Hurley. She also promised a more "open administration."
The USFA will hardly "grind to a halt" if the new, or any President for that matter made herself available to feedback from the membership. In fact, I have great respect for Kalle, and I believe she would be quite receptive to any comments we have regarding the THS issue or any other problem. Your job is to simply to contact her. As the saying goes, it's not exactly rocket science--just keep at it until your voice is heard.
Originally Posted by Guided by Wire
I plan to send emails about the THS issue (even though the fencer in my family doesn't compete at the NAC/Summer Nationals level, I still recognize that it is a rotten idea).
I was specifically talking about the idea of having in place a way to reach the top banana in case of an "emergency". I think that would just be abused. I'm reminded of the woman who called 911 because McDonald's drive-thru got her order wrong. In fact, looking at the USFA org chart, they already have a person designated to deal with member issues and inquiries. "Petra Rangel, Member Services Representative" (unless I am misinterpreting their job title).
The point that Kalle won the election based in part on an expressed willingness to communicate directly with the membership, and an expressed intention to be more open is exactly the point I had in mind when I thought that there was supposed to be some way to deliver some sort of input. I am very interested in the statement "Your job is to simply to contact her. As the saying goes, it's not exactly rocket science--just keep at it until your voice is heard." How do I contact her? How do I keep at it until my voice is heard? I will accept that it is not rocket science, but I really don't know how at this point.
As to the comparison of this emergency with MacD's getting an order wrong, that kind of contempt is I will say mildly unhelpful. The reason this is an emergency is because the time seems to be rapidly approaching when the USFA will be unable to get loose from these chains. My desperation, along with several other people, is to be given time to negotiate, time to think of something else. I do not want the President of the USFA to talk to me personally to allay my concerns. I want her to talk to the E.D. who is in fact an employee to make him stop making a huge decision that impacts the way we go to National Tournaments, that impacts our individual finances, that impacts the paperwork and complications in trying to compete as if it was his personal decision to make.
Fencing, on the other hand, only consumes three holidays - Memorial Day, Veterans Day and the Fourth of July, and of those, only the Fourth of July is a major travel weekend.
NAC A - Columbus Day for some parts of the country and Canadian Thanksgiving
NAC B - For the next two seasons won't be close enough to Nov. 11 Veteran's Holiday for the majority of people
NAC C - No holiday
NAC D - Martin Luther King Holiday, while a holiday for schools and banks is not given to everyone
Junior Olympics - This holiday most people get off
NAC E - No holiday
NAC F - No holiday Memorial Day - No fencing event
Summer Nationals - 4th of July which many people get is usually near the first part of Nationals.
So there are really only two fencing events when most people have a holiday and two more when some have a holiday.
NAC A - Columbus Day for some parts of the country and Canadian Thanksgiving
NAC B - For the next two seasons won't be close enough to Nov. 11 Veteran's Holiday for the majority of people
NAC C - No holiday
NAC D - Martin Luther King Holiday, while a holiday for schools and banks is not given to everyone
Junior Olympics - This holiday most people get off
NAC E - No holiday
NAC F - No holiday Memorial Day - No fencing event
Summer Nationals - 4th of July which many people get is usually near the first part of Nationals.
So there are really only two fencing events when most people have a holiday and two more when some have a holiday.
Teacup -
Thanks for the clarification - the underlying issue is that there are usually a lot of rooms available in most cities during fencing weekends - as they aren't on holidays (anecdotally, there have always been vacancies available). More reason not to enter a closed system.
So you spread that out in different areas. Say...raise the membership fee by $5 or $10 per person and raise the NAC fees by $10 or $20. That would cover the bases.
Better yet, it would help us bypass option #2.
R-
"Some people are born great fencers, some people achieve fencing greatness, and some people have it thrust upon them."
NAC A - Columbus Day for some parts of the country and Canadian Thanksgiving
NAC B - For the next two seasons won't be close enough to Nov. 11 Veteran's Holiday for the majority of people
NAC C - No holiday
NAC D - Martin Luther King Holiday, while a holiday for schools and banks is not given to everyone
Junior Olympics - This holiday most people get off
NAC E - No holiday
NAC F - No holiday Memorial Day - No fencing event
Summer Nationals - 4th of July which many people get is usually near the first part of Nationals.
So there are really only two fencing events when most people have a holiday and two more when some have a holiday.
NAC E is at the time of most colleges' spring break. A holiday of a different kind.
- The USFA, not THS, will be in charge of approving waivers
- THS will provide multiple levels of hotel (cheap, meduim, expensive)
- If you find a rate at another hotel, THS will book you an comperable room at the same rate (which most often results in them booking that room, just through THS)
- If someone finds a room at the THS hotel independantly at a lower rate (say a last minute price drop on the part of the hotel), the entire THS block at that hotel will be assigned that lower rate
- Booking through THS will NOT be mandatory this year and won't until the bugs have been ironed out.
With this new info, I am now unconcerned and even encouraging.
I also have a powerpoint on the subject that I'll upload when I figure out how to.
You may now return to your regularly scheduled freak-out.
The only way to atone for being occasionally a little over-dressed is by being always absolutely over-educated. -Oscar Wilde
Don't let the trial period fool you. Remember, bookings for room blocks are handled one-to-three years out. In my opinion, the "trial period" is a bit of a ruse - there is no way that THS could have the full Stay and Pay system in place for most of this year - and therefore no real way to enforce it (the room blocks are already booked for the 09-10 season).
However, once it begins, THS will be negotiating (and committing) for the 2010-2011 season - which means, whatever we think about this turkey, we'll be locked into it. The long deal cycle for these kind of deals conveniently obfuscates the fact that once it is in place, it will be impossible to eliminate.
Don't be fooled in this case. Look at the US Volleyball bid sheet (already seeking commitments for a 2012 event). The USFA will not be able to back out of this deal next year - even if it wants to - as the room blocks will be set in stone this year.
I go back to what I've said all along. This is a turkey that should never see the light of day. That we're being fed a line of BS regarding a "soft launch" or "trial" is really disingenuous. It's only a trial if we're not stuck with it, otherwise it is simply "conditioning the rats."
If the board wants to convince me otherwise, let them put in stone that no commitment for Seasons 2010-2011 and beyond will be made until the one year "trial period" is complete. Otherwise, the soft-launch/trial is a subterfuge, plain and simple.
- The USFA, not THS, will be in charge of approving waivers
How many people will USFA have to hire to do it?
What will be the cost and how it compares to revenue of the program?
Originally Posted by telkanuru
- THS will provide multiple levels of hotel (cheap, meduim, expensive)
Well... THS cheap is $79, Motel 6 cheap is $35
Does anyone see a difference here?
Plus there is no free option (stay with friends, take 2 red-eyes, etc.)
Originally Posted by telkanuru
- If you find a rate at another hotel, THS will book you an comperable room at the same rate (which most often results in them booking that room, just through THS)
How will it work for those of us who play Priceline "pick your own price" game?
I usually wait till a couple of days before an event and get rooms on Priceline
for less than 50%... There is no time to coordinate re-booking with THS
plus I already paid for the room...
The only way to prove to THS that such low price exists is to book it (non-refundable)
- The USFA, not THS, will be in charge of approving waivers
I am concerned about the amount of time and hassle that will be involved with this process. For example, if I am a member of a hotel points program (I am, and stay basically "free" at all events since I have so many points) do I have to waste time proving it for every event?
R-
"Some people are born great fencers, some people achieve fencing greatness, and some people have it thrust upon them."
I am concerned about the amount of time and hassle that will be involved with this process. For example, if I am a member of a hotel points program (I am, and stay basically "free" at all events since I have so many points) do I have to waste time proving it for every event?
R-
And don't forget - every waiver that the USFA grants is $12-15/night out of the USFA's pocket. I can see that they'll have a really strong incentive to grant waivers
Here's the thing, hopefully it will allay several fears which have been raised here.
Let's not let facts get in the way of good fearmongering, though.
I do not see any information here which in any way allays any fears. Just to take one example: "More frequent rate integrity checks" is a nice thing to say, but it does not guarantee in any verifiable way that performance will improve. It is the "trust us" model.
Originally Posted by fdad
