USFA considering forcing members to use THS

[Gav]

Sorry, I am a bit lost.

How is enforcing a monopoly actually going to help anyone?

[Redblade]

I don't care either way.
... As long as I get the hotel I want, when I want it.

I've tried THS a few times and the customer service/Internet interface SUCKS.

[occasionalfencer]

Sorry, I am a bit lost.

How is enforcing a monopoly actually going to help anyone?

It doesn't. However, on paper the proposed monopoly can look pretty good, like this: If we are the only hotel reservation service, we can reserve larger blocks of rooms for you. Since we are reserving larger blocks of rooms from the hotels, we can get better rates for you from the hotels.

Really, even experienced business people are astonishingly naive when you present them with a paper that says that they will get more money for less work. This feeds on exactly the same impulse that leads people to buy lottery tickets. Different lotteries for different classes of people.

[Peach]

Really, even experienced business people are astonishingly naive when you present them with a paper that says that they will get more money for less work. This feeds on exactly the same impulse that leads people to buy lottery tickets. Different lotteries for different classes of people.

It's also why people start lotteries--and casinos, and sin taxes--because it looks like free money. Sometimes it is, too. Generally both groups (individual gamblers and governmental groups) end up being dependent on the free money in complex ways.

[misha]

I don't care either way.
... As long as I get the hotel I want, when I want it.

I've tried THS a few times and the customer service/Internet interface SUCKS.

well... then you should care because looks like if the Stay & Play plan is implemented
you will have to use THS or will not be allowed to compete.


.

[flechewounds]

It will also get interesting with fencers who are under 18 (who are generally not allowed to check into a hotel themselves and who often don't have a credit card for incidentals, etc.).

Why? Because now, the USFA proposed to go beyond individual responsibility (e.g., I don't check in with THS, I don't fence) to familial responsibility (I don't check in with THS, my kid doesn't fence), thus penalizing the kid for the sins of the father (or mother).

Last I checked, this isn't how things are done in this country - kids may not be prosecuted (or held liable) for the sins of their parents. The opposite is, of course, untrue, but denying a youth or cadet fencer entry because his or her parents didn't book with THS is, in effect, penalizing the child for the decision of the parents.

As I have said on a number of occasions in this thread - there is NOTHING GOOD ABOUT THIS PROGRAM AND IT MUST BE STOPPED.

[FreedomAtRisk]

If everyone hates this thing so much, the easy thing to do would be to simply boycott THS during NAC A and NAC B. I don't think that near-venue hotels are difficult to find in either Des Moines or Kansas City, and a boycott would send a clear signal that the membership doesn't want this.

[occasionalfencer]

It will also get interesting with fencers who are under 18 (who are generally not allowed to check into a hotel themselves and who often don't have a credit card for incidentals, etc.).

Why? Because now, the USFA proposed to go beyond individual responsibility (e.g., I don't check in with THS, I don't fence) to familial responsibility (I don't check in with THS, my kid doesn't fence), thus penalizing the kid for the sins of the father (or mother).

Last I checked, this isn't how things are done in this country - kids may not be prosecuted (or held liable) for the sins of their parents. The opposite is, of course, untrue, but denying a youth or cadet fencer entry because his or her parents didn't book with THS is, in effect, penalizing the child for the decision of the parents.

As I have said on a number of occasions in this thread - there is NOTHING GOOD ABOUT THIS PROGRAM AND IT MUST BE STOPPED.

I am guessing that it would theoretically be possible to use a waiver for this. Something along these lines: The parent books a room wherever they want. Then when they go to register the fencer, they can say that the fencer is staying with relatives in the area. Part of my objection is that adding a waiver step to the process does not help anything. And I am sure that the waivers would take significant staff time and energy. But if they don't hire a new staff person just for waivers, that additional staff time looks free.

[dekko]

If everyone hates this thing so much, the easy thing to do would be to simply boycott THS during NAC A and NAC B. I don't think that near-venue hotels are difficult to find in either Des Moines or Kansas City, and a boycott would send a clear signal that the membership doesn't want this.

According to the way the program APPEARS to work, the only thing to boycott would be the NAC itself and not the THS hotels. Not suggesting it but if you register for the NACs the THS hotels can not be boycotted unless the fencer is willing to sign up to fence and have it cancelled due to not staying in the THS hotel(s). Good luck with this one.

[FreedomAtRisk]

According to the way the program APPEARS to work, the only thing to boycott would be the NAC itself and not the THS hotels. Not suggesting it but if you register for the NACs the THS hotels can not be boycotted unless the fencer is willing to sign up to fence and have it cancelled due to not staying in the THS hotel(s). Good luck with this one.

Dekko -

That would mean that this deal would have to be in place for NAC A and B. It isn't listed as a requirement on the registration form, nor is it published (that I've seen). It would be very difficult for it to be in place "with teeth" for NAC A and NAC B (some people may already have their lodging arrangements for those events). I think that a boycott for NAC A and NAC B would show that the membership doesn't like this concept and isn't willing to tolerate it - and I think its too late to make this a requirement for those two events.

[piste off]

My best friend has a strategy that works pretty well with his wife. Throw out two really crappy ideas, and then the one you really want. The third option always looks good in comparison.

In dealing with the budget issue, maybe the USFA is trying something similar, and this is step one. The choices could be:

1. The THS idea.
2. Something equally bad, like selling a swimsuit calendar showing only photos of Inquartata.
3. An increase in NAC fees.

R-

[brtech]

That's just nutty.
This kind of thing should be decided by at least the EC, if not the entire board, and warrants VERY careful consideration.

I agree. This is not a decision that should be left to staff.
In addition to Peet's comment on the effect on eligibility (and in fact, does that actually require a change in the Athlete's handbook, or the rules that it memorializes?), it's too much money to be a staff decision. Anything that affects $100K plus of USFA money should be something the Board vets.

This brings up an interesting question: could staff enter into a contract that commits the USFA to, say $10M of expense without Board approval?

Can they enter into an agreement with, say a marketing company that promises $10M of revenue with lots of strings?

Surely, they can purchase something for $100.
Surely, they can sign a contract for, say, a vendor.

But what is the limit they can commit the organization to?

Usually there is a fixed dollar amount that requires more approval, and some level of entanglement that limits what revenue they can deal with.

What are the limits staff operates within?

[Capt. Slo-mo]

2. Something equally bad, like selling a swimsuit calendar showing only photos of Inquartata.

If he's decked out in Euro-Speedos, it's money in the bank!! The USFA debt retired in a week....

[Capt. Slo-mo]

Meanwhile, from a coach on the prep volleyball board:

Just lost our hotel for BigSouth.
(12/24/08 12:34 AM)
We had a hotel for BigSouth. All approved by THS and everything. But, for some reason, THS yanked it from the approved list today. We've been told that's 3 entire teams now scrambling for other accomodations. My parent -- God bless his soul -- volunteered to be the hotel-parent. He's been working hours and hours on this, trying to find the best deal.........b'fast, parking, proximity.......now he has to start over from scratch.

I personally love Hampton Inns.......and it's almost always our team hotel. It's always less than $100, always free hot b'fast, always wonderful beds and employees. Stayed at Hampton in Buckhead for BigSouth 2006 and 2007. But, no more. THS can't get Hamptons on board. Wonder why?

The woman on the phone told my hotel-parent, "Let me help you find new rooms." If I'd been on the phone, I may have said, "If you'd just leave us alone, we'd have been done with this in 15 minutes and 3 months ago. WE DON'T NEED ANY MORE OF YOUR HELP! YOU'RE THE FRICKING PROBLEM!!"

[occasionalfencer]

If everyone hates this thing so much, the easy thing to do would be to simply boycott THS during NAC A and NAC B. I don't think that near-venue hotels are difficult to find in either Des Moines or Kansas City, and a boycott would send a clear signal that the membership doesn't want this.

Another thing that would send a clear signal that the membership does not want this is lots and lots of emails, calls and letters saying so, directed to many different people. Contact the USFA office! Contact any individual staff person that you are on good terms with. Ask for support from any of our high level athletes that are in your club. Send emails to the board members, other than Brad who is already listening. If anyone has email addresses for other board members, post them here, especially Kalle Weeks, who got elected amidst promises of openness and honesty.

Numbers count. If everyone who does not like this just drops a line saying that, it will have more influence than just one or two people with carefully reasoned, thoughtful analyses.

[keith]

This brings up an interesting question: could staff enter into a contract that commits the USFA to, say $10M of expense without Board approval

Call me a cynic but I doubt this did not involve some level of board approval.

Leaving aside the issue of exactly what the BoD signed off on for Kurt's duties & responsibilities.

Did the full board hear about it, probably not. Was the idea floated by the relevant individuals, probably.

After all the budget contains this as a future revenue stream.

[occasionalfencer]

Call me a cynic but I doubt this did not involve some level of board approval.

Leaving aside the issue of exactly what the BoD signed off on for Kurt's duties & responsibilities.

Did the full board hear about it, probably not. Was the idea floated by the relevant individuals, probably.

After all the budget contains this as a future revenue stream.

Either the board did know about this, and agreed at least tacitly, so they are complicit but are trying to foist blame onto Kurt, or the board is ignorant that this large budget item significantly changes the way we go to tournaments, in which case they are incompetent. Take your pick.

[fencing taxi]

I just looked at the THS website and found that "Cheerleading" has some sort of similar contract with THS and in my opinion, it does not look very appealing. They are having an event in Atlanta next March which I decided to look at since our next SN will be in Atlanta. They only have 3 hotels listed and they range from $125-$149 (not including $22-$30 parking fees). Is this the best they can do?? Is this what we have to look forward to? Previous posts have said that one of the benefits would be a wider range of price options. Really?!

Also, this is what they say about their relationship with THS:

This year American Championships / Spirit Team is going to require their customers to book their rooms at an approved American Championships / Spirit Team hotel; the approved partner hotel list is generated by the THS Company. Each participant going to any of American Championships / Spirit Team event must confirm their hotel bookings at an approved hotel at the time they register for the event.

Each team/club will be contacting hotels directly and confirming their room reservations by using the Hotel Group Code. THS will be working with American Championships / Spirit Team closely on where each team is booked and will validate the information with the hotels prior to arrival.

The other interesting thing about this is that once you click on the hotel list, there is a "book direct" link with each hotel. The link provides information for you to call and make your own reservation with the hotel! So what does THS do that we can't do on our own?!

I sincerely hope that the USFA looks long and hard at this before making a final decision. This decision will affect many people and should not be taken lightly. I always spend a great deal of time researching hotels to find the best possible options for my family and I don't want to have my freedom to do so taken away! Sometimes, my best options are to book through THS and sometimes they are not. But ultimately, I want to be the one to make that decision!

[Slacker]

Personally, I use piste off's theory in car shopping with my husband.
It's easy to gripe about a problem; it's smart to come up with creative solutions to the problem. Let's do this.

Even though I'm a "normal working adult" I do have to save up for an event like a NAC, and I go for the social networking as well as the fencing experience. While I do like the idea of boycotting the NACs, I am only a recreational fencer, not one who puts a lot of hard training into it. Like the Olympiads who were forced to boycott the Games several years ago for political reasons, I would feel bad for the few who really count on doing well there.

If your division is anything like our division, there are few fencers who attend division meetings (unless they have an axe to grind); even fewer get involved with the day-to-day stuff. This APATHY gives officers/staff/whoever cloute to make decisions on behalf of the membership, and sometimes this is terribly misguided. My guess is it's the same with USFA. My suggestion/solution is to write/call/email the USFA and your division officers, and FLOOD them with your potential solutions. At the very least make them aware that this issue is the type that requires a vote from the general membership.

[edew]

From reading various posts here and elsewhere, it seems like THS is trying to corner the market not by providing a better service but by locking in the customers (the M$ way, as opposed to the Apple way). Can't create a good website, no matter. Can't negotiate good hotel room rates, no matter. As long as the organizations or associations are locked in, there's no problem (for THS).

I blame USFA for falling for this slick sales pitch, but I don't blame USFA for using some service, such as THS. It might be worthwhile to look around for a competing service to THS. I'm sure there are others.