Where are the women fencers?

[Karinka]

Has anyone else noticed this trend? Other than the NACs, there appears to be a significant decline in women fencers at the local levels.

Example:http://askfred.net/Events/whoIsComin...nament_id=6385

I realize the above is a mid summer event, but I have seen the same at events during the regular season.....

Karinka
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Salute!

[noodle]

i've not seen a "decline", per se. its always been like this.

[fdad]

Has anyone else noticed this trend? Other than the NACs, there appears to be a significant decline in women fencers at the local levels.

Example:http://askfred.net/Events/whoIsComin...nament_id=6385

I realize the above is a mid summer event, but I have seen the same at events during the regular season.....

Karinka
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Salute!

Women generally choose Women's events over Mixed events. Especially when, as in this case, there are highly ranked men registered. Your example is flawed.

[Karinka]

Women generally choose Women's events over Mixed events. Especially when, as in this case, there are highly ranked men registered. Your example is flawed.

OK...point taken. But, in the Midwest, there aren't a lot of tournaments that offer a separate "Women's event". Given that, in the past, women were willing to compete in Mixed events regardless of the rating. In my opinion/observation, the participation has never been this low.....

Karinka
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Salute!

[oiuyt]

OK...point taken. But, in the Midwest, there aren't a lot of tournaments that offer a separate "Women's event". Given that, in the past, women were willing to compete in Mixed events regardless of the rating. In my opinion/observation, the participation has never been this low.....

I just did a search to try to find an equivalent event from last year.

Lakeshore appears not to have run any between the end of May 2008 and early September 2008.

Looking at the May 24-25, 2008 tournament:
33 entries in MxE, 3 appear to be female
56 entries in MxF, 11 appear to be female
8 entries in MxS, 2 appear to be female

That's comparable to the percentages in the linked tournament.

US Fencing, as a whole, has about a 2-1 ratio in male membership to female. In my experience, the participation rates in large mixed opens has been closer to what is seen here.

-B

[Sukinator]

We can barely ever get enough women together to award ratings even here in NJ, despite our enormous density of fencers. There may be fewer women fencers than men, but there are certainly enough of us to make good tournaments! Sometimes it seems like all the strong women fencers have collectively decided that it's not worth even trying to compete locally. I've been wondering what we need to do to start the snowballing effect the men get on askFRED. Any ideas?

[TBean]

There are many factors that could keep senior and vet. women from competing. Many women, myself included, often decide it is simply not worth competing in mixed events. I'm not going to beat the host of highly ranked guys in a larger event, and truthfully its not worth getting physically mauled by some 16 year-old boy who does not know his own strength at a smaller event. Many women, myself included, may have other things pulling at their time such as children and their activities, family, work, so the ability to carve out a significant portion of a day for a competition - that you may get crushed or mauled at - has much less appeal.

I choose to compete less frequently due to family obligations, and when I do compete the events are women-only so the competition is worthwhile to me.

[erooMynohtnA]

Men also have things to do. They somehow make it to the large mixed events, even the ones who will do poorly. Competition is just typically a higher priority among men. I'm not saying anything anyone doesn't know already.

The answer to how to get more women competing is pretty simple, but it requires a lot of legwork.

Ladies:
Go to more tournaments.
If you see a women's event, make a point to attend.
Encourage women from your club to attend events. (Especially women's)
Encourage women already at events to attend the next one. (Especially women's)
Encourage non-fencing women to start fencing.
Go to practice more.
Get better. Get a rating. Spread it around.
Offer other women rides to tournaments.
Get the the young ladies to come to tournaments.

[fdad]

We can barely ever get enough women together to award ratings even here in NJ, despite our enormous density of fencers. There may be fewer women fencers than men, but there are certainly enough of us to make good tournaments! Sometimes it seems like all the strong women fencers have collectively decided that it's not worth even trying to compete locally. I've been wondering what we need to do to start the snowballing effect the men get on askFRED. Any ideas?

For an area with so many highly rated women, I am often surprised by how many don't fence in local NJ events. I've asked and heard complaints about uneven directing, not wanting to fence at rival clubs, etc.

An issue this time of year is that most clubs are hibernating for the summer, and a lot of fencers are away at camps or not training.

Another factor is that, at least for women's foil during the fall-winter-spring the NAtional/International calendar is very crowded so top fencers are too busy.

[piste off]

We can barely ever get enough women together to award ratings even here in NJ, despite our enormous density of fencers. There may be fewer women fencers than men, but there are certainly enough of us to make good tournaments! Sometimes it seems like all the strong women fencers have collectively decided that it's not worth even trying to compete locally. I've been wondering what we need to do to start the snowballing effect the men get on askFRED. Any ideas?

I think the emphasis that the USFA is putting behind ROCs is a step in the right direction and can help with this. Some other concepts, like what NY did with their Grand Prix series this year are good (the women's tournaments were very, very strong).

From discussions, I know fencers monitor askFRED and decide to attend based on pre-registration levels/quality. This presents a bit of a chicken and egg situation. Through aggressive emailing, facebook msgs, and calls ("I'll go if you go and try to bring X, Y and Z") you can really build the turnout, in my experience.

R-

[Sukinator]

There are many factors that could keep senior and vet. women from competing.

True, but it's not just the senior and veterans who are sitting women's events out. Just as the high school boys keep the men's opens big, the high school girls should be stepping up more often. And it's not just mixed events that are the problem--women's only tournaments often fail to get even 6 competitors.

For an area with so many highly rated women, I am often surprised by how many don't fence in local NJ events. I've asked and heard complaints about uneven directing, not wanting to fence at rival clubs, etc.

An issue this time of year is that most clubs are hibernating for the summer, and a lot of fencers are away at camps or not training.

Another factor is that, at least for women's foil during the fall-winter-spring the NAtional/International calendar is very crowded so top fencers are too busy.

All good reasons, but all should apply equally to men as to women.

Ladies:
Go to more tournaments.
If you see a women's event, make a point to attend.
Encourage women from your club to attend events. (Especially women's)
Encourage women already at events to attend the next one. (Especially women's)
Encourage non-fencing women to start fencing.
Go to practice more.
Get better. Get a rating. Spread it around.
Offer other women rides to tournaments.
Get the the young ladies to come to tournaments.

I endorse these suggestions, and generally follow them myself, but the problem is still one of motivating group action.

I wonder if the vast profusion of fencing clubs in NJ actually hurts the situation, a la fdad's comment about rival clubs. At each individual club, maybe there can be too few women to generally get groups banding together and attending events en masse?

[Applesauce and Foils]

For one thing I think there's generally fewer women fencing at all. It's not unusual for me to be the only girl at the club, even when it's a big turnout. And then, out of the women that do fence, most of them are not that competitive.

Even when I've asked them if they're going to compete, they've been really hesitant. It takes a long time for them to decide to get signed up for one. It's not a bad thing, that's just what usually happens.

AF

[BenTheEMOP]

Ladies:
Go to more tournaments.
If you see a women's event, make a point to attend.
Encourage women from your club to attend events. (Especially women's)
Encourage women already at events to attend the next one. (Especially women's)
Encourage non-fencing women to start fencing.
Go to practice more.
Get better. Get a rating. Spread it around.
Offer other women rides to tournaments.
Get the the young ladies to come to tournaments.

Also, some tournament organizers ask or require women to register for women's events if they want to fence the mixed, which may help draw women out. I have heard women from my club say that they don't want to do the mixed and won't register for the women's events until they see enough other registrants. It is kind of a catch-22 if everyone is doing that.

I would also add to this list that women shoudl work together in practice doing drills and the like to help each other improve and build confidence.

[Sinestra]

OK...point taken. But, in the Midwest, there aren't a lot of tournaments that offer a separate "Women's event". Given that, in the past, women were willing to compete in Mixed events regardless of the rating. In my opinion/observation, the participation has never been this low.....

Karinka
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Salute!

I guess I'm just the odd crazy one who would much rather fence in a mixed event any day. Maybe part of it is being in the Midwest, but I feel like I get a hell of a lot more out of fencing the more competitive and experienced fencers in the region--which, at least in the case of those who compete here regularly as I know it, are almost exclusively male.

Then again, I'm still just a student who isn't currently doing that "real life" thing that seems to get in the way all the time. That might have more to do with it than I realise.
(And for what it's worth, I'm constantly trying to get women from my local club to compete, as well as the girls on my team. It's next to impossible for a lot of them; the competitive element of the sport just isn't as important to them, for whatever reason.)

[Displacement]

Just as the high school boys keep the men's opens big, the high school girls should be stepping up more often. And it's not just mixed events that are the problem--women's only tournaments often fail to get even 6 competitors.

I wonder if the vast profusion of fencing clubs in NJ actually hurts the situation, a la fdad's comment about rival clubs.

For those in NJ, remember about the Garden State Games this weekend. Few states have state games (need to be a NJ resident), let alone ones with Fencing.

I've been to several NJ opens lately. Mens-Womens-Mixed, they are all about 80% high-school aged. And I don't care what your weapon, age or experience is, there is plenty of competitive fencing if you live in NJ.

[Elendae]

I guess I'm just the odd crazy one who would much rather fence in a mixed event any day. Maybe part of it is being in the Midwest, but I feel like I get a hell of a lot more out of fencing the more competitive and experienced fencers in the region--which, at least in the case of those who compete here regularly as I know it, are almost exclusively male.

Then again, I'm still just a student who isn't currently doing that "real life" thing that seems to get in the way all the time. That might have more to do with it than I realise.
(And for what it's worth, I'm constantly trying to get women from my local club to compete, as well as the girls on my team. It's next to impossible for a lot of them; the competitive element of the sport just isn't as important to them, for whatever reason.)

You're not the only one. Outside of one "tournament" held as an in-club event, I've never competed in an exclusively women's event. I enjoy fencing with guys and there aren't many women in my area that I can fence with on a regular basis.

I tend to encourage everyone to try to compete, but I don't go out of my way to single out the women. I treat them the same as the men. Then again, we do almost exclusively mixed events here.

[flechewounds]

One of the things that happens out here is that the event can be either mixed or separate - depending on whether 6 or more women show up (or depending on a vote).

My daughter (who is highly ranked) is almost always better off in the mixed events than the women's only events (6 - 8 people, not a lot of ratings).

That being said, we've pretty much pulled her back from locals due to concern about injury and burnout (of course, we are doing world cups and NACs, so there are plenty of events).

[KD5MDK]

I would estimate that about 75% or more of tournaments down here are run as Mixed & Women's, so I don't know why it is such a problem for the rest of the country.

[Elendae]

One of the things that happens out here is that the event can be either mixed or separate - depending on whether 6 or more women show up (or depending on a vote).

My daughter (who is highly ranked) is almost always better off in the mixed events than the women's only events (6 - 8 people, not a lot of ratings)

I've seen this done as well and I wasn't particularly thrilled. I drove 2+ hours to a tournament that had been advertised as mixed, only to first be told that I had to fence in a separate women's event, as there were 6 women. Next, I was told that I was only going to be allowed to fence in the women's event, as the men's would be happening at the same time (it started at least an hour later, well after the women finished), never mind that there were people planning on fencing foil and epee at the same time and that there was a girl who had been fencing simultaneously in the women's and mixed foil event earlier that day. Eventually, it was worked out, but the organizer was so rude to me and to two other female fencers about the situation, I haven't been back to a tournament there.

I'm not highly rated, or rated at all, for that matter, but I would still prefer to fence in a larger, mixed event, than a small, gender restricted one. There's generally more of a variety of skill levels and styles to fence.

[DavidX]

Yeah more chick (esp HOT chick) fencers would be totally bomb - but short of threatening little girls on the playground to fence or you will never stop yelling at their pets than getting in one of those mel gibson cryo storages i dont really think there can be much done about it.

Now tv - if it was on tv you would see hella people fencing overnight - but usually the only time you see it is some douchy little slow motion bull**** and than like a huge gray logo for some accounting agency whilst some chi-mo waxes all serious about accuracy and precision in long term investments.

It makes fencing seem like this ghost sport which isnt even played anymore - just merely existing in some nebulous universal unconscious anytime some jaded advertising burn out runs out of ideas for a law firm commercial.
Not exactly up there with volleyball, field hockey or soccer.

Threating little girls can always of course be done for its own sake tho.

much love