USFA Bib Rule

[bob46]

When is the USFA going to put the bib=target rule into effect? or are they never going to, and just make everyone who has to compete in world cups have 2 different masks?

[ballisticmonkey3]

My understanding is that the rule will go into effect the following year (2010).
You might try emailing the USFA and asking them to be sure...

[Allen Evans]

....or, reading the docments posted at the start of this thread:

Agenda - Board of Directors Meeting, July 5th 2009

[pillow]

4. (Foil bib) Tabled until September pending more review by the FOC

[bob46]

thanks guys. man, new masks needed soon. :-/

[yearsofwisdom]

welll how would it work? would we need to buy completely new masks with a lame bib or sew a patch on?

[catwood1]

welll how would it work? would we need to buy completely new masks with a lame bib or sew a patch on?

If only there were some function that would allow us to peruse past conversations about these very topics, possibly if it were sorted by keyword.

Wait. I think there is. Its called the... the "look for" function? No, that's not it...

I'll think of it sooner or later...

[CvilleFencer]

The major vendors are going to be/already have conversion kits for their masks. Or just slide in a new bib if you have an LP Exchange mask. Best bet will be to buy the kit from the company that made your mask for the best fit, but I am sure a lot of armourers will be doing conversions as well.

But, until it becomes a rule best not to spend to much time thinking about it!

[Purple Fencer]

4. (Foil bib) Tabled until September pending more review by the FOC

Which mean when would it be required in at domestic events if they don't make a decision until the 09-10 season begins??

[Redblade]

When is the USFA going to put the bib=target rule into effect? or are they never going to, and just make everyone who has to compete in world cups have 2 different masks?

I don't think the USFA is going to make World Cup competitors buy two different masks.

[eac]

I asked Brian Rosen, an official armorer guy who's armorered at multiple World Cups and who I generally trust about these things, and my understanding from him, if I recall correctly, was that things will go down as follows:

Starting in either January 2010 or some later date, like September 2010, bib-target masks will be required only for Div 1/Junior/probably-Cadet NACs for a year, and then after that year they'll probably be required everywhere.

He seemed to think that the main decision that was going to be made in September 2009 was whether it was going to start in January or sometime later, and that there definitely would be this NAC lead time thing.

[fdad]

I don't think the USFA is going to make World Cup competitors buy two different masks.

At SN, I watched several bouts featuring a fencer wearing the new mask. Each time she tested at the start of a bout, she asked her opponent to also test the bib to verify that it registered off target (it was not clipped to lame). So you can use the new mask under the current rules.

[Greybeard]

Heck, I get so sweaty when my bib sits on my lame it registers on target. Freaky, a shot in the face did too. I was able to recreate too to nullify the touch. So I didn't get a bib to lame ricochet comment from the ref.

[14-14PretAllez]

...by the rules, that touch should not have been [annulled]...it is your responsibility to make sure that you are not conducting via your arm/hand/bib/mask..even if it occurs in the middle of the bout, and you are able to demonstrate that it is clearly what happened, not as you mentioned, a ricochet. On a flight home from Atlanta I discussed this situation at length with charlie washburn, and he cited many examples of making this call at a world cup level...he also mentioned that at domestic events he has, in a bout between clubmates, annuled the touch at the request of the fencer who has landed the questionable touch...a great instance of sportsmanship.

Go ahead and get on my case about not presenting you with rule numbers...i dont feel like looking them up...do as you will.

[bob46]

...by the rules, that touch should not have been [annulled]...it is your responsibility to make sure that you are not conducting via your arm/hand/bib/mask..even if it occurs in the middle of the bout, and you are able to demonstrate that it is clearly what happened, not as you mentioned, a ricochet. On a flight home from Atlanta I discussed this situation at length with charlie washburn, and he cited many examples of making this call at a world cup level...he also mentioned that at domestic events he has, in a bout between clubmates, annuled the touch at the request of the fencer who has landed the questionable touch...a great instance of sportsmanship.

Go ahead and get on my case about not presenting you with rule numbers...i dont feel like looking them up...do as you will.

yep. then get a new mask/dry mask out with towel fast/repaint!

[brtech]

I asked Brian Rosen, an official armorer guy who's armorered at multiple World Cups and who I generally trust about these things, and my understanding from him, if I recall correctly, was that things will go down as follows:

Starting in either January 2010 or some later date, like September 2010, bib-target masks will be required only for Div 1/Junior/probably-Cadet NACs for a year, and then after that year they'll probably be required everywhere.

He seemed to think that the main decision that was going to be made in September 2009 was whether it was going to start in January or sometime later, and that there definitely would be this NAC lead time thing.

Not quite, but close. The actual language of the proposal is:

Motion (Mr. Baker): To adopt rules changes to reflect a change in the target area
in foil to include a portion of the lower bib, matching the current rules in effect
for FIE competition. The effective date of these rules changes will be August 1,
2009 for all national tournaments and qualifiers to national tournaments. The
effective date of these rules changes will be August 1, 2010 for all other
competitions at all levels governed by the rules of US Fencing.

While it's possible, I think that making the effective date be September, or even October when the board meeting is in September is not possible. While it could be November or December, I suspect that more likely it would be Jan, but I don't know that. That's assuming it was passed in the September meeting, which is not a given.

There are discussions which would modify this to only apply to specific events (like Div 1/Jr/Cadet) for some time.

Brian

[catwood1]

At SN, I watched several bouts featuring a fencer wearing the new mask. Each time she tested at the start of a bout, she asked her opponent to also test the bib to verify that it registered off target (it was not clipped to lame). So you can use the new mask under the current rules.

I reffed a girl like that. The edge of the bib was also taped with non-conductive tape to make sure to insulate it from the lame.