Good Video Camera for fencing?

[Vince]

Our club is moving in the next couple of weeks to a larger facility, and I was hoping to get 3 video cameras setup on 1 strip, for folks to tape their fencing.

The question I have, is what cameras are good for video taping fencing? I want the quality to be good, and the cost to be decent (Good quality > Cost)

Also, if they can tape, and record directly to the computer, that would be awesome.

Thanks!

[DLEE]

I am also looking for advice on a video camera for fencing at an affordable price.

I think that the concerns would be the type of medium and the light gathering ability if your club is not that well lit.

In my limited experience mini DV tape has better visual quality than some of the other media and is easier to edit on most computers. I like a 3ccd sensor system rather than a single cmos sensor. Those are getting hard to find at consumer prices.

Hopefully some of the experts will offer suggestions.

[Inquartata]

Try this earlier thread:

Choosing a good digital camera for fencing...

[Emfuser]

If you're on a budget but want something HD that won't blur at useful resolutions, I recently purchased a Samsung SC-HMX10 for exactly this purpose. It can do 720p at 60 frames per second (this is the same as what all the major networks broadcast HD sports in, FYI).

It's a basic camcorder with HD features that I got as a factory refurb for ~$250.

[Phaeton]

This may be a bit late to help, but I'll throw in my two cents.

If you're getting a consumer level camera, even a nice consumer camera, you're probably better off with Canon's CMOS than the 3CCD.

I've used some high end prosumer and professional cameras from Panasonic and cannot recommend them enough on an individual basis. The thing I've noticed is that with 3CCD camcorders that the 3CCD chip ends up being so small and so badly crammed into the device that you end up losing a lot of functionality and end up with a whole slew of problems (such as poor low light performance).

MiniDV cameras are a bit less expensive generally that some of the newer technology, but would definitely recommend them. I shoot a lot of stuff on Mini DV and really like it. Yeah, it looks like it is shot on DV (even HDV shares this quality) but tapes are cheap, plentiful, and easy to manage. If you have your HDD (or SSD for that matter) full at a tournament you are screwed. Tape up? Just pop in a new tape. It's nice having physical back ups of fencing, and honestly, miniDV is a lot more compatible and easier to use with most video editing software. That said...you're probably going to want to make sure you have a firewire port.

At this point I'd like to recommend the Canon HV20. They are less expensive than the HV30s and are basically the EXACT SAME camera apart from the color. I've used both extensively, and I can't tell the difference. If you don't want to deal with miniDV I'd go with the HG20 or another one of Canon's cameras.

If you don't buy Canon I encourage you to buy Panasonic. If that fails buy Sony or JVC. These companies really dominate the market when compared to any other players. I am not a big fan of Sony as a company or their annoying proprietary parts, but whatever floats your boat.

[Greybeard]

Wouldn't a sword be better for fencing? Someone had to say it.

[griffindm]

I wanted to throw in my 2 cents. I have also been working on a camera setup for our club. I wanted to do delayed live video as well, so students can review their footwork during line drills, and coaches can have students review execution as required during lessons. This type of setup is used at the OTC in Colorado Springs. I initially found that this looked very expensive, as some complicated hardware was required. Eventually, I stumbled arcross this:

http://www.enosoft.net/

Which is a general purpose digital video processor, but also includes a nice variable time-delay option, as well as support for secondary monitors. It is FREE for non-comercial use, and only $129 to buy. It seems to do the trick. The only caveat is that you have to use a FIREWIRE video source (i.e. either a firewire equipped camera, or a firewire analog-to-firewire converter). Fortunately, most firewire-equipped camcorders will also serve as an analog-to-firewire video converter, so you can tap into analog cameras as well.

This coupled with a reasonably priced video projector should be able to equip any club with a blank white wall with a large screen video playback system.

We are not totally there yet, but I've learned quite a bit along the way. Let me know if anyone has any questions.

Dave G.

[griffindm]

I did the full delayed video setup at out club tonight. I was a little disappointed that the projector (a viewsonic) showed a significantly smaller picture when linked to the laptop. I spent a little time tweaking it and got in larger for the second half on the night, but I will do further research on this.

The setup is not too complicated. We have a projector mounted on a removable boom (about 8 ft off the floor) which allows easy access to the unit but keeps it away from the fencers. I ran a vga cable down to a nearby workbench, where I also setup the laptop and camcorder. The camcorder (a Sharp VL-NZ100) is linked to the laptop via a firewire cable. The enosoft software I mentioned above does a nice job handling the video options. I put a club logo at the top of the screen and set the video delay to 10 secs for footwork and 6 secs for bouting. The fencers liked the ability to see what they were doing right or wrong in both the footwork sessions as well as the bouting.

Drawbacks so far include handling the difference between a widescreen laptop and a 4:3 projector (things look a bit squeezed and cutoff). I would recommend matching the computer to the projector on native aspect ratios (either 4:3 or widescreen for both). The projector I am using is 2000 lumens, which is about the minimum for use in a well lighted room. A higher lumen output will increase the visibility, especially if you enlarge the image. We were running about a 5 ft square image (i.e., equivilent to a 70" screen). The image was bright enough, and we could probably get away with backing the project up another 4 feet and boosting the image up to 100" max and still be usable.

As noted in the previous post, the software requires a firewire video input. The max cable length for firewire is 15 feet, so this limits the flexibility in setting up the camera and requires a computer with a firewire port. I hope to pickup an analog to firewire video converter soon, which should give us more flex in positioning cameras for different angles.

If I was really thinking I would have taken some pictures of the setup. Perhaps I can post some next week.

Regards,

Dave G