Agenda - Board of Directors Meeting, July 5th 2009

[pillow]

Is the driving force for this system primarily to get "rebates for the USFA" and less expensive venues? Does anyone think that THS, based on its track record, will be able to deal with the waiver issue? Has the convenience of the membership been considered?
If the true reason is to save money for the USFA in any way, then that should be made clear. Otherwise, it is more appropriate for the membership to choose any hotel, regardless of THS, as we do currently.

[oiuyt]

Is the driving force for this system primarily to get "rebates for the USFA" and less expensive venues? Does anyone think that THS, based on its track record, will be able to deal with the waiver issue? Has the convenience of the membership been considered?
If the true reason is to save money for the USFA in any way, then that should be made clear. Otherwise, it is more appropriate for the membership to choose any hotel, regardless of THS, as we do currently.

It will save/generate over $100,000 for US Fencing next season. It will result in lower per night room costs both for US Fencing (officials) and members. Moreso starting in 2010-11, as some of the 2009-10 rates aren't likely to be renegotiated (although some, such as NAC A, mentioned above, will be reduced).

Some venues will become cheaper (e.g. Atlanta will be $20,000 cheaper with Stay & Play than without), but my understanding is that this is primarily about the hotel costs.

-B

[pillow]

It will save/generate a couple of hundred thousand dollars for US Fencing next season. It will also result in lower per night room costs both for US Fencing (officials) and members. Moreso starting in 2010-11, as some of the 2009-10 rates aren't likely to be renegotiated (although some, such as NAC A, mentioned above, will be reduced).

Some venues will become cheaper (e.g. Atlanta will be $20,000 cheaper with Stay & Play than without), but my understanding is that this is primarily about the hotel costs.

-B

If the system works without hitches, than saving money for all parties seems reasonable.

[fdad]

My employer has negotiated rates at many hotels. I am usually able to book rooms at these rates for personal use. These rates are typically much lower than the THS rate. Would I be eligible for a waiver? Who decides what makes a room "equivalent"?

[oiuyt]

Lack of price integrity in the past was one of the issues raised with THS. One would hope that this will be an area with significant improvement. That said, if you're getting better rates than the THS I suggest contacting both THS and the National Office.

I would guess that hotels are considered equivalent if of the same (star) level and type (suites vs. standard rooms, breakfast options, etc.). I would hope that distance to the venue/airport is also taken into consideration.

While I haven't been a part of any direct discussions with THS, my understanding is that they intend and anticipate considerably expanding the number of offered hotels under the Stay & Play program vis-a-vis what we have had. I don't have the numbers available, but that was the experience of USA Volleyball.

-B

[hello?]

I usually book through THS, so would likely not be affected. However, I hate the idea of being forced to do anything. I cannot imagine every 'waiver' being included (ie. you crash at a friend's hotel, on the floor). And how do you 'prove' you have family or friends in the area and are staying with them? Sounds like a violation of privacy..... Also, a LOT of the people I know who don't use THS book flight-and-hotel packages which are usually considerably cheaper than booking the two separately. How would THS compete with that? Or with last minute reservations (and deals) because you simply didn't know you could go before... If I ever got to a tournament I had registered for and found that I could not fence because I did not book through THS, I would be beyond angry. THS has messed up many, many people's reservations in the past. Why would we give them even more power to screw up? I am definitely against this idea. The $19.99 a night I MIGHT save is not worth it.

[Empty Wallet]

dekko's post made my jaw drop.

I asked Mrs Wallet (some time lawyer in our jurisdication, but not in the US) about this THS description:

In Australia it would be called third line forcing and is very not legal. Third line forcing is a form of exclusive dealing involving the supply of goods or services on the condition that the purchaser buys goods or services from a particular third party, or a refusal to supply because the purchaser will not agree to that condition (Wikipedia defn.)

Also, the third party contact with hotels about guests' reservations, as described above, would be in contradiction of our state and federal privacy laws.

Curious to hear from the US lawyers.

[teacup]

Lack of price integrity in the past was one of the issues raised with THS. One would hope that this will be an area with significant improvement. That said, if you're getting better rates than the THS I suggest contacting both THS and the National Office.

More than once I have found cheaper rates at the same hotel than the rate offered by THS. The first time it happened, I contacted the USFA and THS. I was informed by both that THS was obligated to match the cheaper advertised rate. THS never did match the cheaper rate even though I sent documented proof. I lost the cheaper rate because I was waiting for THS to match.

The next time it happened, I booked the cheaper rate and asked THS if they would match. They did not.

Now, if I find a cheaper rate, I cancel the THS reservation. (The rates at the Galt Hotel in Louisville booked through hotels.com were 70% less than THS rates.)

How is this going to work for people using "points" to book at host hotels?

THS will need to change its policy of giving back the block of rooms a month before events since many do not finalize plans that early.

[misha]

The program is called "Stay & Play".

The basic concept is that a tournament organizer (or NGB) guarantees that all (or nearly all, with some level of exceptions) participating athletes will stay in official hotels.
....
-B

It feels like a bad dream: back to Communist Russia 30 years ago...
Please wake me up!

.

[oiuyt]

How is this going to work for people using "points" to book at host hotels?

That's been included on the preliminary lists of waiver reasons that I've seen.

-B

[fdad]

While it might make some sense for Volleyball, where team members typically travel and stay together, its not going to make fencers that travel as a family happy at all. When will we be forced into an approved airline and rental car agency and restaurant (other than the Gaylord)?

[hello?]

I am surprised this doesn't have it's own thread. I would imagine that most people will be dead set against something like this....I bet it is somehow legal or volleyball could not do it. Legal does not mean it's good.

[teacup]

That's been included on the preliminary lists of waiver reasons that I've seen.

-B

What happens if they don't match a cheaper rate?

[Mr.MightyMouse]

The program is called "Stay & Play". It's been used successfully by USA Volleyball for the past year or two.

The basic concept is that a tournament organizer (or NGB) guarantees that all (or nearly all, with some level of exceptions) participating athletes will stay in official hotels. This allows for greater negotiating leverage with the hotels and makes it more valuable to the hotels to be involved.

Some more of the supporting concepts:

* THS would have larger room blocks and considerably more hotel options available. Part of the idea is that instead of 2-4 functionally equivalent mid-level hotels, as we've had in the past, THS would include both up- and down-scale options. Members could request that specific properties be added to the THS approved list. If members find a property that they would prefer to any on the THS list, THS guarantees the ability to add that or an equivalent property at the same or a lower rate. If, for whatever reason, that isn't possible, waivers would be available.

* The increased overall block size and added leverage for guaranteed stays would result in lowered room rates for members and, at times, an increased rebate to US Fencing.

* For some cities the venue cost will drop with the Stay & Play program.

* A waiver system will be established to exempt athletes who live nearby, have family living nearby, etc. I don't believe the full list of exemptions has been determined, but lists I've seen include such things as using hotel points to book rooms, staying in an RV at WalMart, camping, owning a timeshare near the tournament city, etc.

USA Volleyball's experience this past season was an average reduction in room rates of $19.85. Preliminary negotiations for US Fencing have indicated this isn't unreasonable to expect for us as well. The current host hotel for NAC A is $129. The rate if we implement Stay & Play is $109.

As part of the program, all participating athletes will be required to either book at an official hotel through THS or receive a waiver.

-B

Firstly - let me preclude the following with the point that O's transparency, timeliness and honesty on this forum are 2nd to none,yet here are my problems with this plan :

1. I paid $99 at Gaylord for a tower 2 queen room under the teacher rate - since me Mom is one - so $109 is no great shakes. $99 is available for any teacher from May through September - simple look at their website would suffice to indicate such. Split the room with another fencer - so $50 + $16 for "MonopolyFees" was somewhat reasonable. I have heard stories of teammates booking $159 THS accommodations being given a 1 King Bed room.
Is not sharing a bathroom - disgusting enough?
2.How many Board or FOC members paid for their stay at the Gaylord?
3.How many Board or FOC members researched competitive rates at Ft.Worth/Dallas area?
4. I usually book a car+flight+hotel package which on priceline or expedia saves about $400 for a 7 day trip in comparison to the least expensive rates booked separately.
5. THS has not had the least expensive rate for the actual venue in over 5 years - I stopped even bothering with them, given the the service and communication expediency is on the par with the ancient Sumerian one.
Usually if you look at a hotel down the block - you can usually get it at half of the THS's price or even less - if you have time to watch the fares and/or know how to book them.
So if for a 7 day trip I'm forced to use THS hotel+reservation - I could lose about $400 for not booking a package deal, as well as around $350 for not staying down the street - $750 for a week long trip - which is already a luxury given an economic downturn. Which brings me to the last point :
6. How many Board + FOC members have been severely affected by the recent economic crisis - i.e. lost jobs, salary cuts, significantly reduced remuneration, and... how many of them live in top urban centers where the cost of living keeps rising in spite of the decreasing average income?

[Mr.MightyMouse]

What happens if they don't match a cheaper rate?

You get a refrigerator magnet.

[telkanuru]

Let me state this as clearly as possible:

****. That. ****.

OK, maybe that wasn't that clear. Stupid censors.

[Goldgar]

USA Volleyball's experience this past season was an average reduction in room rates of $19.85. Preliminary negotiations for US Fencing have indicated this isn't unreasonable to expect for us as well. The current host hotel for NAC A is $129. The rate if we implement Stay & Play is $109.

Brad, in the last 5 years, I have never yet paid more than half the THS rate for a hotel room (usually my arrangements are flight/hotel/car packages). Saving $19.85 over the rates THS has been recently "negotiating" would mean increasing my hotel costs by 81%!

Are you saying that THS will be making equivalent rates available? I don't believe it.

[pillow]

Based on the unscientific poll of responses to Brad's explanation of this THS/USFA plan, it looks like a recipe for ill will. I believe that one of Kurt's main goals is to restore confidence in our organization--this plan would appear to be having the opposite effect. Freedom of choice regarding travel and hotel prices is quite important in any economy, especially in the current downturn. Although I'm sure all the members want the USFA to have the best discounts on venues, etc, it cannot be at the cost of lack of freedom of choice. The technical details of having THS handle "waivers" which may affect the ability of a fencer to enter an event, based on THS's track record to date is a source of concern. I suggest that the relevant parties in the National Office/BOD/EC re-evaluate this plan before making it permanent policy.

[DLEE]

Based on the unscientific poll of responses to Brad's explanation of this THS/USFA plan, it looks like a recipe for ill will. I believe that one of Kurt's main goals is to restore confidence in our organization--this plan would appear to be having the opposite effect. Freedom of choice regarding travel and hotel prices is quite important in any economy, especially in the current downturn. Although I'm sure all the members want the USFA to have the best discounts on venues, etc, it cannot be at the cost of lack of freedom of choice. The technical details of having THS handle "waivers" which may affect the ability of a fencer to enter an event, based on THS's track record to date is a source of concern. I suggest that the relevant parties in the National Office/BOD/EC re-evaluate this plan before making it permanent policy.

This is very well said. THS and "Stay and Play" are a disaster and an offense.
The USFA apparently has no conception of the emotional heat this would engender.

[dberke]

Folks,

Before everyone gets their panties all tied up in knots, keep in mind that they are still working on the details of the Stay & Play program. Aside from Brad's post clarifying the motivation for the program, everything else posted here has been nothing more than speculation and rumor based on a brief verbal description at the BoD meeting.

It's also clear that people have some concerns about what they have heard. Rather than posting those concerns here, where few people will read them, I encourage you to email Kurt with those concerns.

However, before doing that, seriously ask yourself what you truly want - people have been mentioning the "freedom to choose a hotel" but that's probably not exactly what you want. What you probably want is a room near the venue at a reasonable rate and that your reservation doesn't get screwed up or lost by THS. If the Stay & Play program can provide you with that, and save the USFA money as well, I think the majority of people will be fine with it.

Again, let Kurt know what is important to you - posting it here doesn't imply he'll see it. I know he's been soliciting opinions and I'm sure he'd value the input from the membership.

So, to summarize:
1. Calm down.
2. Deep breath.
3. Decide what is important to you regarding hotels
4. Communicate that to the people who are working on the program.

Dan
BoD Member and frequent user of Priceline.com for hotels - I have the same desires you have for cheap hotel rates!