Agenda - Board of Directors Meeting, July 5th 2009

[Barry Paul]

Why not just have stricter enforcement of the rules regarding bib size, rather than the complexity and expense of electric bibs?

The bibs did not contravene the regulations, however the difficulty was how to frame regulations to stop them becoming too wide and then apply them. The F.I.E. have been unable to enforce the simple definition of an attack at foil so trying to apply a rule about lateral bib size was totally beyond them.

[edew]

The bib size is a physical dimension not subjected to interpretation, unlike the attack. Should be defined better.

[Barry Paul]

So we have a 7 foot male giant and a 4 foot petite woman fencers, do they have the same size bib? If not how are we to decide what size fits who?

I look forward to your better definition which the referee will be asked to enforce!

[pillow]

How about the good stuff like the results of the discipline hearings? Anybody get banned or reprimanded?

[edew]

So we have a 7 foot male giant and a 4 foot petite woman fencers, do they have the same size bib? If not how are we to decide what size fits who?

I look forward to your better definition which the referee will be asked to enforce!

Yes. They should have the same size bib (or have a max-size bib). That 7 foot giant and the 4 foot petite woman foilist both use the same sized blade (or have a max-length blade) same bell guard size, same level of mesh penetration resistance (assuming FIE masks), etc.

Mask sizes don't fit into a continuum. You basically have XS, S, M, L, XL. So specify the bib size for each one, at most. Done. Specify what XS, S, M, L, XL means (interior circumference of the mask, say).

So you might ask, what prevents an XS fencer from wearing an XL mask? One is safety, which the referee can say, "Hey you can't wear this mask because it's going to come off of you." Another is who cares? What prevents a Y10 fencer from hiding behind a 120mm foil guard? There's benefits and drawbacks from using a large guard and there are benefits and drawbacks from using an oversized mask.

I believe there is already a rule that says the chin must rest on the chin rest of the mask when the mask is worn. If not, red-card penalty for non-conforming equipment.

[Inquartata]

So, the tall fencer with the giraffe-like neck gets a bib that is so short that his throat is in danger, and the dainty 4' lady gets one that covers lame down to her navel?

Is this some sort of natural selection method designed to ensure that eventually all successful foilists will be dwarves whose heads spring directly from their shoulders?

[edew]

So, the tall fencer with the giraffe-like neck gets a bib that is so short that his throat is in danger, and the dainty 4' lady gets one that covers lame down to her navel?

Is this some sort of natural selection method designed to ensure that eventually all successful foilists will be dwarves whose heads spring directly from their shoulders?

Can you customize the bib of the mask you buy? I can't. I'm just saying, for an extra-large mask, bibs can only be in the dmensions within a certain range. For a small mask, bibs can only be in the dimensions of another certain range. How hard is that to implement?

I know tall fencers with short bibs. So what? It's not possible to get a super-small bib on a regular (say medium or large sized) mask.

[Inquartata]

I think it's all a tempest in a teapot anyway; fencers in days of yore seemed to get by just fine with those tiny little bibs like the old Castelli masks had, and there were not vast numbers of tracheotomies.

But what do I know, I don't fence foil.

[bob46]

wait, what was all that about eric getting reprimanded? *totally not in the loop*

[prototoast]

I know tall fencers with short bibs. So what? It's not possible to get a super-small bib on a regular (say medium or large sized) mask.

I think you're assuming a rather strong correlation between head size and torso length? Within genders, I would not expect much.

Also, can't we throw short fencers a bone here, they're disadvantaged at everything else, give them their lesser target area.

[pillow]

Do we have the minutes of the BOD meeting online yet?

[oiuyt]

Do we have the minutes of the BOD meeting online yet?

No.

I'm coordinating with the person who was acting as secretary in my absence to get the draft minutes created in our standard format. Once that's happened the draft will be released to Board members for any immediate comments or corrections. Assuming that no issues arise at that stage (typical) the draft minutes will be posted on the US Fencing website.

It's somewhat slower this time than previously this season due to my having been out of the country. That said, I anticipate it being considerably faster than the turn around time from previous seasons (released some time after approval at the following Board meeting).

-B

[dekko]

Got to say, I am surprised no one cares about the alleged/potential online registration to THS situation. This is by far the biggest issue of everything discussed at this 'gathering' of great fencing/legisilative minds. I thought for sure it would be of more concern by more fencers. Guess I was wrong, not the first time.

On a side note, if THS trys to pull that crap with the wrong people, US Fencing will regret it. I guess our new leader hasn't been told that there are several attornies that are fencers and/or parents. Guess they get to learn the hard way, very hard.

[brtech]

I heard a lot of talk about it during SNs, all uniformly negative. Some VERY strong words were expressed.

While I sympathize with the notion that we should be turning over every rock to get more income, I think this is a very bad idea and should never be implemented.

THS is a service. If you want to use them, great, and BTW, it helps USFA if you do. If you don't want to use them, you should not be forced to do so.

[teacup]

Under the budget there is $0.00 reported under #51 RYC, SYC, ROC Sanction Revenue.

Why is it $.0?
Where is the money collected from these events reported? ($5.00 or so per participant was paid to the USFA from hosts of RYC's and SYC's.) Is it there and I just can't find it?

[pillow]

Got to say, I am surprised no one cares about the alleged/potential online registration to THS situation. This is by far the biggest issue of everything discussed at this 'gathering' of great fencing/legisilative minds. I thought for sure it would be of more concern by more fencers. Guess I was wrong, not the first time.

On a side note, if THS trys to pull that crap with the wrong people, US Fencing will regret it. I guess our new leader hasn't been told that there are several attornies that are fencers and/or parents. Guess they get to learn the hard way, very hard.

Missed this one--specify complaint please?

[oiuyt]

Under the budget there is $0.00 reported under #51 RYC, SYC, ROC Sanction Revenue.

Why is it $.0?
Where is the money collected from these events reported? ($5.00 or so per participant was paid to the USFA from hosts of RYC's and SYC's.) Is it there and I just can't find it?

That's one of the questions that was raised ahead of time.

We had revenue from that source. It has been listed under something else erroneously.

Such corrections, most of which were made, are why the report is titled "final-2a". There were multiple versions before "final" and, obviously, a couple after that point. And a few minor errors, such as this one, which still existed as of publication.

-B

[dekko]

Missed this one--specify complaint please?

Here's how I understand it and I am sure there are those who will either fill in the blanks or clarify anything I may have misspoke. Here goes....

Pillow registers for national event X through a, so far mythical, online registration system, because the people who run fencing are too stupid to use askfred.net(seperate conversation had many times already). Pillow is then taken to the THS website where there will be at least one hotel option for reservations. If Pillow likes the option(s) such a reservation can be made and we all go on our happy way. However, if Pillow doesn't like the THS option(s) and closes the window and decides to make said reservations outside of THS Pillow is soon pounded on(possible exaggeration) with emails asking where Pillow is staying. If Pillow ignores these emails because Pillow has a life and better things to do and deletes all of these emails Pillow will show up to national event X and find that the event in which was signed up for and paid for has been cancelled because Pillow did not stay with the THS option(s) for hotel(s). If Pillow tells THS where the independent reservation is made THS will then contact the hotel and try to meet or beat the rate and if they do they cancel the reservation with Pillow's hotel choice and make a new one with the THS approved choice(s). If Pillow trys to intervene and stay at the hotel of Pillow's choice, Pillow could show up to fence and find their registration cancelled. If Pillow wants to stay with friends or family then they may APPLY for a waiver. If denied and no THS hotel is selected Pillow will arrive to find their registration cancelled.

Bottom line, if Pillow does not stay with a THS approved hotel(s) then Pillow can show up to fence and find the registration in which was paid and confirmed - cancelled.

Now it is true this is what SOMEONE wants to make happen and not in place yet and it's true all this is predicated on US Fencing creating an online system to register for national events. So, it may never happen as we all know this mythical system has been in the works for how long now?

At any rate, it appears they are close, allegedly, to an online registration system which means this could be close to reality. If they cancel the wrong atty's kid's registration, hello lawsuit. However if they cancel the wrong sabre fencer's registration they could find their tournament committee area destroyed and not able to run the event. No matter the outcome, this is not a good idea and I hope our BOD/officers/EC/etc realize the incredible number of fallacies with such a plan and back away from this quickly.

Enjoy!!!!

[pillow]

I believe we had an online system in place for a number of NACs this past season, although not for the SN. So the system does exist. Why would the USFA wish to link this online registration for NACs to THS, and then delete a fencer's NAC registration for not using THS housing services? I understand your concern, but NAC entries are confirmed by either email from the USFA, or an online list of confirmed entries. Those fencers cannot be removed from an event once the entries are confirmed and paid for by the fencer. Are you sure your scenario is correct?

[oiuyt]

The program is called "Stay & Play". It's been used successfully by USA Volleyball for the past year or two.

The basic concept is that a tournament organizer (or NGB) guarantees that all (or nearly all, with some level of exceptions) participating athletes will stay in official hotels. This allows for greater negotiating leverage with the hotels and makes it more valuable to the hotels to be involved.

Some more of the supporting concepts:

* THS would have larger room blocks and considerably more hotel options available. Part of the idea is that instead of 2-4 functionally equivalent mid-level hotels, as we've had in the past, THS would include both up- and down-scale options. Members could request that specific properties be added to the THS approved list. If members find a property that they would prefer to any on the THS list, THS guarantees the ability to add that or an equivalent property at the same or a lower rate. If, for whatever reason, that isn't possible, waivers would be available.

* The increased overall block size and added leverage for guaranteed stays would result in lowered room rates for members and, at times, an increased rebate to US Fencing.

* For some cities the venue cost will drop with the Stay & Play program.

* A waiver system will be established to exempt athletes who live nearby, have family living nearby, etc. I don't believe the full list of exemptions has been determined, but lists I've seen include such things as using hotel points to book rooms, staying in an RV at WalMart, camping, owning a timeshare near the tournament city, etc.

USA Volleyball's experience this past season was an average reduction in room rates of $19.85. Preliminary negotiations for US Fencing have indicated this isn't unreasonable to expect for us as well. The current host hotel for NAC A is $129. The rate if we implement Stay & Play is $109.

As part of the program, all participating athletes will be required to either book at an official hotel through THS or receive a waiver.

-B