Agenda - Board of Directors Meeting, July 5th 2009

[mdstasinos]

So do you actually have any information on the stay and play program?

After all it might be helpful to just let people know a few details. It is rather difficult for people to make informed decisions when there is so little information.

As I recall communication was a central theme during the election.

Keith,

In speaking with Kurt this morning, he is trying to have up on the US Fencing Website this afternoon the information with "Stay and Play."

Mark Stasinos
Vice-President
US Fencing Association

[keith]

Keith,

In speaking with Kurt this morning, he is trying to have up on the US Fencing Website this afternoon the information with "Stay and Play."

Mark Stasinos
Vice-President
US Fencing Association

How can that information not have been prepared before this became policy

If you are going to engage in such a policy shift I understand that you may not want to advertise it in advance but you should probably aim to get your PR out with the announcement.

This does not look like good management.

[gladius]

Well that sounds fabulous. Every one wins and the free money flows to the governing body. Here I was thinking only the Fed could pull of the trick of making money appear out of thin air.

(emphasis added)


How the US Government and the USFA think they will get out of the financial hole?


The Stimulus/THS Package Explained

A story of debt, free money, and hotel accommodations

It is the month of August, on the shores of the Black Sea. It is raining, and the little town looks totally deserted. It is tough times, everybody is in debt, and everybody lives on credit.

Suddenly, a rich tourist comes to town.

He enters the only hotel, lays a 100 Euro note on the reception counter, and goes to inspect the rooms upstairs in order to pick one.

• The hotel proprietor takes the 100 Euro note and runs to pay his debt to the butcher.
• The butcher takes the 100 Euro note, and runs to pay his debt to the pig grower.
• The pig grower takes the 100 Euro note, and runs to pay his debt to the supplier of his feed and fuel.
• The supplier of feed and fuel takes the 100 Euro note, and runs to pay his debt to the town's prostitute that in these hard times, gave her "services" on credit.
• The hooker runs to the hotel, and pays off her debt with the 100 Euro note to the hotel proprietor to pay for the rooms that she rented when she brought her clients there.
• The hotel proprietor then lays the 100 Euro note back on the counter so that the rich tourist will not suspect anything.
• At that moment, the rich tourist comes down after inspecting the rooms, and takes his 100 Euro note, after saying that he did not like any of the rooms, and leaves town.

No one earned anything. However, the whole town is now without debt, and looks to the future with a lot of optimism...

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is how the United States Government and the USFA is doing business today.

[oso97]

Part of the problem with what you state here is that you miss no work days by going to the ROC. Well, that is not exactly true. Depending on where you live, it can still impact your work day. Example, I travel to the Duel in the Desert and my event is on Saturday morning I must leave from the east coast sometime Friday which would reflect on missing work to attend the event.

So then you hit the ones on the east coast... There are 3.

I think you're missing the point I'm trying to make, which is: The accessory costs associated with attending an NAC have spiraled wildly out of control due to locations, times and schedules, and are not projected to get better (in fact, there is the perception that the new Stay and Play program will only make these things worse, not better, for the individual competitors). Its to the point that someone in my position can hit three large events that are even further away than a NAC that is relatively close to us for roughly the same price.

Okay, I realize that technically this falls under the heading of "anecdotal." Its one club, from one city that participates in one weapon (Women's Sabre). But, I wouldn't have even been tempted to run the analysis unless I thought that the NAC wasn't worth the money. THAT is the key problem.

[flechewounds]

So then you hit the ones on the east coast... There are 3.

I think you're missing the point I'm trying to make, which is: The accessory costs associated with attending an NAC have spiraled wildly out of control due to locations, times and schedules, and are not projected to get better (in fact, there is the perception that the new Stay and Play program will only make these things worse, not better, for the individual competitors). Its to the point that someone in my position can hit three large events that are even further away than a NAC that is relatively close to us for roughly the same price.

Okay, I realize that technically this falls under the heading of "anecdotal." Its one club, from one city that participates in one weapon (Women's Sabre). But, I wouldn't have even been tempted to run the analysis unless I thought that the NAC wasn't worth the money. THAT is the key problem.

A few years ago, I was at a board meeting where Paul Soter brought up the idea of looking at "fencing dollars," e.g., the overall cost of attending events, and focus on ways to reduce the overall "fencing dollar" cost. This would include putting events in places that are well-served by airlines, have a wide variety of hotel and transit options, etc. If the overall cost was lowered, then even if the underlying event registration fees were a little higher, most folks would be happy.

Anyone who knows me knows that I've had my run-ins with Paul, but on this topic he is absolutely correct. We need to look at overall costs - travel, lodging, dining and tournament fees - and look for ways to reduce those overall costs - not ways to enhance the USFA's revenue by increasing such costs.

Unfortunately, the USFA has failed to take this into account. Last season (as CadetVet) I plotted the fencers on a map and also plotted the tournament locations. Needless to say, fencers were far from fencing locations. We're running down that same path this year.... really, how many fencers are in Des Moines, Virginia Beach or Memphis? Not too many. This has been a problem for our organization for a number of years - and continues to be a problem.

Stay and Pay just worsens the situation - by increasing the underlying costs of an event - more fencing dollars out the door. That is why it needs to die a timely death...

[telkanuru]

Some clarifications obtained from a board member:


- The USFA, not THS, will be in charge of approving waivers

- THS will provide multiple levels of hotel (cheap, meduim, expensive)

- If you find a rate at another hotel, THS will book you an comperable room at the same rate (which most often results in them booking that room, just through THS)

- If someone finds a room at the THS hotel independantly at a lower rate (say a last minute price drop on the part of the hotel), the entire THS block at that hotel will be assigned that lower rate

- Booking through THS will NOT be mandatory this year and won't until the bugs have been ironed out.


With this new info, I am now unconcerned and even encouraging.

I also have a powerpoint on the subject that I'll upload when I figure out how to.

You may now return to your regularly scheduled freak-out.

[keith]

I also have a powerpoint on the subject that I'll upload when I figure out how to.

Why didn't someone say there was a powerpoint presentation!!!

That changes everything.

[flechewounds]

Folks -

Don't let the trial period fool you. Remember, bookings for room blocks are handled one-to-three years out. In my opinion, the "trial period" is a bit of a ruse - there is no way that THS could have the full Stay and Pay system in place for most of this year - and therefore no real way to enforce it (the room blocks are already booked for the 09-10 season).

However, once it begins, THS will be negotiating (and committing) for the 2010-2011 season - which means, whatever we think about this turkey, we'll be locked into it. The long deal cycle for these kind of deals conveniently obfuscates the fact that once it is in place, it will be impossible to eliminate.

Don't be fooled in this case. Look at the US Volleyball bid sheet (already seeking commitments for a 2012 event). The USFA will not be able to back out of this deal next year - even if it wants to - as the room blocks will be set in stone this year.

I go back to what I've said all along. This is a turkey that should never see the light of day. That we're being fed a line of BS regarding a "soft launch" or "trial" is really disingenuous. It's only a trial if we're not stuck with it, otherwise it is simply "conditioning the rats."

If the board wants to convince me otherwise, let them put in stone that no commitment for Seasons 2010-2011 and beyond will be made until the one year "trial period" is complete. Otherwise, the soft-launch/trial is a subterfuge, plain and simple.

[mfp]

Some clarifications obtained from a board member:

- The USFA, not THS, will be in charge of approving waivers

WTF?

Why would there be a "waiver program", or anyone in charge of it, if the program isn't mandatory?

And saying "Booking through THS will NOT be mandatory this year and won't until the bugs have been ironed out" is a pretty braindead statement. The major bug people are complaining about is the making booking through THS mandatory itself.

[hello?]

Why didn't someone say there was a powerpoint presentation!!!

That changes everything.

Why indeed?

[telkanuru]

Why indeed?

I agree with this. Whoever was supposed to distribute info dropped the ball big time. This wouldn't be a thing, otherwise.

There is a longer version of the same powerpoint which I don't have an online copy of which states that the 3 price ranges that will be available are ~$60, ~$100, and ~$150. It's also unequivically clear that the USFA will not be stingy with waivers (citing "I want to sleep in a tent" as a valid waiver).

Additionally, the claim is made that this will enable us to come closer to larger fencing population centers.

There are several points on how specific improvement has been made to compensate for historical problems with THS.

The powerpoint I have has been posted in the other thread; hopefully they will be merged soon.

Yes, I've drunk the cool-aid.

[edew]

I would be looking at $30 | $60 | $90 with $90 at the high end at an Omni or Westin. (I stayed at the Omni Atlanta for $79/night several years back.)

[telkanuru]

I would be looking at $30 | $60 | $90 with $90 at the high end at an Omni or Westin. (I stayed at the Omni Atlanta for $79/night several years back.)

- If you find a rate at another hotel, THS will book you an comperable room at the same rate (which most often results in them booking that room, just through THS)
...
- If someone finds a room at the THS hotel independantly at a lower rate (say a last minute price drop on the part of the hotel), the entire THS block at that hotel will be assigned that lower rate

Reading comprehension is good.

[flechewounds]

I would be looking at $30 | $60 | $90 with $90 at the high end at an Omni or Westin. (I stayed at the Omni Atlanta for $79/night several years back.)

Eric -

That doesn't count. It was before the Great Recession when room occupancy rates were much higher.

Gary.

[flechewounds]

Reading comprehension is good.

What about Priceline/Hotwire?

[edew]

I have read the previous post you wrote. However, by putting the numbers, 60 | 100 | 150, THS may implicitly try to set the "standard" for what is cheap (Motel 6 and the like), moderate (Holiday Inns, Ramada Inns), and high end (Marriott, Hiltons, Westins).

Further, I got my $79 from Priceline, which, as far as I know, doesn't tell the hotel what the price was. The hotel doesn't know how much the bid was, and the hotel can't or won't use my price as a "lowest published price". Unless I'm mistaken, Priceline (and possibly others like Hotwired and Hotels.com) will not be used to lower block of rooms to that lower rate because there's no way for the hotel to verify.

Maybe someone who's more familiar with the Priceline model can discuss.

[telkanuru]

There is no information on the priceline model. This would be a good example of a question to ask Kurt.

The numbers given were examples, which would of course vary based on location and time frame.

[brtech]

A tidbit about Priceline I found out recently:

They negotiate the bottom line price in advance.

If you bid at or above that rate, they pocket the difference.

If you bid above that rate, they don't accept your bid.

The hotel is NOT in the decision loop when you bid: they decide what rate they will give Priceline before you hit the website, and that's what they get.

[flechewounds]

A tidbit about Priceline I found out recently:

They negotiate the bottom line price in advance.

If you bid at or above that rate, they pocket the difference.

If you bid above that rate, they don't accept your bid.

The hotel is NOT in the decision loop when you bid: they decide what rate they will give Priceline before you hit the website, and that's what they get.

You are correct. Most hotel chains have pretty sophisticated occupancy modeling algorithms that predict occupancy/vacancy on a variety of factors. They then release the a portion of the predicted vacancies to the pricelines/hotwires of the world at a discount price on the condition that the prices are offered "blind" (preventing customers and groups (like THS/USFA) from whining about others getting higher rates). That's why we get 'em cheaper.

[occasionalfencer]

Got to say, I am surprised no one cares about the alleged/potential online registration to THS situation. This is by far the biggest issue of everything discussed at this 'gathering' of great fencing/legisilative minds. I thought for sure it would be of more concern by more fencers. Guess I was wrong, not the first time.

On a side note, if THS trys to pull that crap with the wrong people, US Fencing will regret it. I guess our new leader hasn't been told that there are several attornies that are fencers and/or parents. Guess they get to learn the hard way, very hard.

By the way, looking back I realized that this is THE important leak. Thank you so much.