This past season I had several barrels do something I had never seen: plating on the barrel peeled off. It left a dull under-metal exposed and as it reached the top of the barrel and spread into the inner portions it basically made the tip unusably crunchy and caused grounding (bits of metal floating around). Just a few days ago as I had to tear down an otherwise-working blade I realized the one thing all the barrels had in common: they were Uhlmann. I don't re-use barrels so I have a big old pile of them and I decided to look through it. What I found:
1) Every Uhlmann barrel had this problem.
2) No other barrel had this problem.
I mostly have used generic German points so there were thirteen in my "used" pile. I have 6 FWF and 5 Uhlmann barrels in the pile also. 20 barrels have no problem (just nicks and dings) one of them is Uhlmann but it was never used. I broke the wire assembling it and took it back apart, in just that little "use" the barrel was very damaged (in the pics it is the rightmost Uhlmann) around the base. The 5 Uhlmanns I actually fenced with are all coming apart.
Conclusion: Uhlmann barrels are the worst quality available. All the various generics and FWF fared much better in use. Don't buy Uhlmman points. They suck.
I couldn't find any of my Leon Paul barrels, but they were all three GT and I didn't like them since they went from beautifully smooth to unfixably crunchy after a month or so of fencing. I may have thrown them away.
Pics attached.
-philip
Last edited by counterattack; 06-25-2009 at 03:30 AM.
Fwiw, I have old barrels* from my husband's competitive days (i.e. twenty years ago) that show the same peeling so it's not some relatively new process that's breaking down.
*No, they're not in use. They're just languishing in my armory kit because I'm a magpie. (Among other things.)
Uhlmann's chrome plating process has been notorious for not being worth a c**p. As has been stated in several forums, and at least one publication, this has been the cause of intermittent shorts in epee points. Not only the barrel, but the springs exhibit this same problem.
Remember those who put their lives in danger for your sake.
Conclusion: Uhlmann barrels are the worst quality available. All the various generics and FWF fared much better in use. Don't buy Uhlmman points. They suck.
Philip,
I came to the same conclusion based on similar experiences and am totally sold on FWF as the better alternative. They also seem to hold their contact springs better (i.e. never/rarely need adjusting) and their weight springs are acceptable out of the box and hold up well - better than Uhlmann.
R-
"Some people are born great fencers, some people achieve fencing greatness, and some people have it thrust upon them."
Do me one small favor, please don't confuse the diffrence between:
"German Made" & "Made in Germany"!
Uhlmann parts are German made, yet they are made in China.
The only sole company that really makes true German parts for tips is FWF. This company is a real "Made in Germany" company. If you want true German parts, for true German tips, you have to ask for FWF by name. Look at the barrels and tips and you will see the etching on it with the FWF logo. Anything else is not going to be worth the time of day to even fasten to a weapon.
You would not belive how many kids bring me their parts and tell me they are German! I get the Russian German from STM, or the Hungry German and other c**p that comes along with it. My all time favorite is the Chinese German. The barrels are not even milled, they are poored like the Sprots 7 french, then dipped on some crazy silver flake paint that peels off when you blow on it with your breath. Not good.
Hope this helps,
Gary Spruill
Originally Posted by counterattack
This past season I had several barrels do something I had never seen: plating on the barrel peeled off. It left a dull under-metal exposed and as it reached the top of the barrel and spread into the inner portions it basically made the tip unusably crunchy and caused grounding (bits of metal floating around). Just a few days ago as I had to tear down an otherwise-working blade I realized the one thing all the barrels had in common: they were Uhlmann. I don't re-use barrels so I have a big old pile of them and I decided to look through it. What I found:
1) Every Uhlmann barrel had this problem.
2) No other barrel had this problem.
I mostly have used generic German points so there were thirteen in my "used" pile. I have 6 FWF and 5 Uhlmann barrels in the pile also. 20 barrels have no problem (just nicks and dings) one of them is Uhlmann but it was never used. I broke the wire assembling it and took it back apart, in just that little "use" the barrel was very damaged (in the pics it is the rightmost Uhlmann) around the base. The 5 Uhlmanns I actually fenced with are all coming apart.
Conclusion: Uhlmann barrels are the worst quality available. All the various generics and FWF fared much better in use. Don't buy Uhlmman points. They suck.
I couldn't find any of my Leon Paul barrels, but they were all three GT and I didn't like them since they went from beautifully smooth to unfixably crunchy after a month or so of fencing. I may have thrown them away.
Do me one small favor, please don't confuse the diffrence between:
"German Made" & "Made in Germany"!
Well, I didn't talk about location of manufacture. I have never had problems with my various German knock offs, as indicated by my second picture. But Uhlmann since the FWF-Uhlmann split appear to be crap. They do still say Made in Germany, don't they?
-ph
Last edited by counterattack; 06-27-2009 at 02:50 PM.
Uhlmann & Allstar say: German Made
FWF says: Made in Germany
Uhlmann & Allstar are correct, they are a German company, yet the tips and barrels are made in China. Understand, I do not have a problem with China, just the quality control of this product that comes out of China.
Gary Spruill
Originally Posted by counterattack
Well, I didn't talk about location of manufacture. I have never had problems with my various German knock offs, as indicated from my second picture. But Uhlmann since the FWF-Uhlmann split appear to be crap. They do still say Made in Germany, don't they?
Uhlmann & Allstar say: German Made
FWF says: Made in Germany
Uhlmann & Allstar are correct, they are a German company, yet the tips and barrels are made in China. Understand, I do not have a problem with China, just the quality control of this product that comes out of China.
Gary Spruill
Gary,
I am not sure where you are getting this. The barrels from Uhlmann that I took pictures of all say "Made in Germany", not "German Made" (I have one in my hand as I type this, there is no way I am mistaken). There is no way with the EU rules that they could label them "Made in Germany" and make them in China. But, nonetheless, the barrels are crap. Crap made in Germany. FWF barrels are great, and also made in Germany. I am sure many of the knock offs I used were made in China and they were fine. I don't think this is a "Chinese QC" thing, I think it is a faulty design and process. In Germany ;-)
The point of this thread was to add conclusive photographic evidence about epee barrels to the armory forum. I did some searches and couldn't find what I wanted. I want this thread to come up every time some new kid types "what are the best epee barrels?" in the search box. Hm. What additional text do I need to put in to make sure this comes up for all searches regarding epee barrels whether they be FWF, Uhlmann, Chinese knock offs, or any other type of search about barrel quality, barrel problems, or barrel defects? Maybe that'll do it =)
-ph
Last edited by counterattack; 06-29-2009 at 02:07 PM.
So I was looking more closely at the barrels that I put in the "generic knock off" pile. Turns out four of them are actually pre-split-with-FWF Uhlmann, I believe. They are labeled "Made in Germany RF". These are all in fine shape and are even better examples because they had so much use that you could barely even see the markings. They are from before I stopped reusing barrels so they probably have 4 seasons of use and reuse. No peeling, no egregious nicks. Also, the three "missing" Leon Paul that I thought I had thrown out were actually there in the pile. And despite what I said earlier, they could probably be used by someone who isn't as picky about smooth travel as I am. They aren't bad, but they no longer are like butter even after a very good cleaning of both the LP coated tip and the barrel.
Also, I am a lefty and I destroy bell guards, barrels, and tips pretty quickly. I go for the hand a lot so I hit my opponent's bell a lot. So if you never hit surfaces that aren't squishy you might get better mileage than I do.
I bought a set of FWF barrels and tips for my epees last year to replace the BG German tips I had. After three tournaments with them, I promptly switched both my foils to FWF German. Couldn't be happier with this product.
- It's not that I chose to fence, it's that I feel I have to fence.
Originally Posted by counterattack 
