Fencing Fatality in Poland

[oiuyt]

From the recent notes from the FIE Medical Commission:

Example: Poland few weeks ago - fatal incident

In a training bout between two fencers—one seventeen years old, the other forty—the older went on flêche aiming at the opponent’s arm. His blade broke in two and the stump entered through the victim’s armpit, damaging the artery.

The fact that there was no suitable hospital nearby did the rest causing the fencer’s death by acute hemorrhage.

The victim was wearing an Allstar uniform in good condition just as the blade—made in 1996—was of good quality and broke as expected [no pointed shard].

However, the victim was not wearing a plastron underneath and maybe if he had this could have saved him.

[KD5MDK]

Now to find out if it was an 800N jacket.

[Purple Fencer]

Originally Posted by oiuyt

From the recent notes from the FIE Medical Commission:

Damn it....I made sure the Latvian/Lithuanian incident a few years ago was mentioned at the director's meetings prior to the fencing event at the US Pentathlon nats this last weekend (I was there as event armorer). I even told Mauro (one of the high event officials and whose name I can't remember to even attempt to spell) that he should tell directors to not just have the jackets opened, but to make sure the sleeve is present.

This recent event should not have happened.....there's a REASON I always tell the Smirnov story to people who question why we insist on certain safety rules.

[fatfencer]

Now that there is a recent death, I'm sure guys like telk and all those NE coast fencers who *****ed that mask checks shouldnt be mandatory... those guys wish to recant now right?

The issue isnt the mask its that ALL safety protocols should be followed, including mask and plastron checks.

Polish hospitals... where the nurse are ugly, they put the stitches on they inside and the injectables are used as topical rubs!!!

Fatfencer

[telkanuru]

Originally Posted by Purple Fencer

This recent event should not have happened.....there's a REASON I always tell the Smirnov story to people who question why we insist on certain safety rules.

Yeah because what's been causing deaths in fencing recently has been mask failure...

Safety is an important thing, but you can be safety conscious without having a gigantic stick up your bum, you know.

[telkanuru]

Originally Posted by fatfencer

Now that there is a recent death, I'm sure guys like telk and all those NE coast fencers who *****ed that mask checks shouldnt be mandatory...

Typical of your moronic incompetence; neither I nor my compatriots said anything of the sort.

Please contract ebola.

[MyrddinsPrecint]

Originally Posted by Purple Fencer

Damn it....I made sure the Latvian/Lithuanian incident a few years ago was mentioned at the director's meetings prior to the fencing event at the US Pentathlon nats this last weekend (I was there as event armorer). I even told Mauro (one of the high event officials and whose name I can't remember to even attempt to spell) that he should tell directors to not just have the jackets opened, but to make sure the sleeve is present.

This recent event should not have happened.....there's a REASON I always tell the Smirnov story to people who question why we insist on certain safety rules.

Wearing a mask in good condition is important. Wearing a plastron in important. Wearing other safety gear is important.

But:

There is a huge difference between a National event in the US and a practice session in Poland. Seriously, just about no matter what you do here in the US, you're not going to affect safety equipment use in practice bouts in Poland. I mean, you could invade Poland, but that usually doesn't go that well.

The moral I take from the Smirnov incident is that we should always be thinking about the safety gear we have, and how we can make it safer with developing technologies. BEFORE we have another injury.

The moral I take from this incident is that we ought to be wearing basic safety gear whenever we're fencing, not just when we feel like it.

The moral some others seem to take from it is "OMG SAFETY GEAR WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE". Or... something like that. I think we gain more useful information by not oversimplifying it.

[Jason]

Originally Posted by MyrddinsPrecint

I mean, you could invade Poland, but that usually doesn't go that well.

Historically speaking, the only ones that doesn't go well for is the Poles. Everyone else generally does all right.

[Purple Fencer]

Originally Posted by MyrddinsPrecint

There is a huge difference between a National event in the US and a practice session in Poland.

A broken blade's a broken blade....practice, local, national, Worlds....doesn't matter...the injury risk is basically the same (pending the power of the individuals involved....Behr probably hit Smirnov a LOT harder than I ever could on my best day)

Seriously, just about no matter what you do here in the US, you're not going to affect safety equipment use in practice bouts in Poland.

No....but the example is still valid...safety is safety....it's not dependent on country.

[Purple Fencer]

Originally Posted by telkanuru

Yeah because what's been causing deaths in fencing recently has been mask failure...

Safety is an important thing, but you can be safety conscious without having a gigantic stick up your bum, you know.

That stick up my ass stopped an unsafe mask from hitting the strip at the Pentathlon....missing the rivet on top of the mask....tongue could've come loose, resulting in the mask coming off.

That's what control's for....to catch it before it becomes news.


'course, on a lighter note, control ALSO seems to be where some people find their cords don't work...I felt like the national team armorer for the Mexican AND Guatamalan teams over the weekend...especially re the Mexican body cords....I must've fixed a dozen during control.

[fatfencer]

Originally Posted by telkanuru

Typical of your moronic incompetence; neither I nor my compatriots said anything of the sort.

Please contract ebola.

Sure you did, you WHtouche, and others. whats important is that you are still wrong.... and you fence saber like you have advanced Tourrettes.

I cant be bothered to search thru the database. Im sure someone will do it for me? The search function isnt as robust as I'd like it to be and I'm too lazy to be right.

FF

[fatfencer]

Originally Posted by MyrddinsPrecint

There is a huge difference between a National event in the US and a practice session in Poland. Seriously, just about no matter what you do here in the US, you're not going to affect safety equipment use in practice bouts in Poland. I mean, you could invade Poland, but that usually doesn't go that well.

Pardon me but the underlined is a falsehood. It usually goes very well and for quite some time. Poland, like France has historically not been so good at repelling invaders.

FF

[Jason]

Originally Posted by fatfencer

Pardon me but the underlined is a falsehood. It usually goes very well and for quite some time. Poland, like France has historically not been so good at repelling invaders.

FF

I feel like I read that earlier in this thread. I hope this isn't the next "red bull cola".

[MyrddinsPrecint]

Originally Posted by fatfencer

Pardon me but the underlined is a falsehood. It usually goes very well and for quite some time. Poland, like France has historically not been so good at repelling invaders.

FF

You guys miss my point:

Once you invade Poland, you have Poland.

I like pirogies as much as the next person, but seriously, what are you going to do with it once you have it??

Depending on where else you decide to invade, you could have tea, rice, chocolate, wine, cheese.... all sorts of yummy things. Invading Poland seems like much more work than it's worth.

[Jason]

Originally Posted by MyrddinsPrecint

You guys miss my point:

Once you invade Poland, you have Poland.

I like pirogies as much as the next person, but seriously, what are you going to do with it once you have it??

Depending on where else you decide to invade, you could have tea, rice, chocolate, wine, cheese.... all sorts of yummy things. Invading Poland seems like much more work than it's worth.

You're overlooking the technological perks: submarine screen doors, nighttime spaceships trips to the sun....

[whtouche]

Originally Posted by fatfencer

Now that there is a recent death, I'm sure guys like telk and all those NE coast fencers who *****ed that mask checks shouldnt be mandatory... those guys wish to recant now right?

Somebody dies, and you take the opportunity for some (misplaced, ignorant, misinformed) gloating, complete with big tongue smiley face?
Stay classy, moron.

And no, nobody argued that mask punch tests should not be "mandatory". Just that they are unnecessary to perform before every tournament. Which is still true. Which is why if you fence 10 events at summer nationals, they only punch your mask once. I believe that's the sentiment, on the part of Bill Hall who is more respected than anyone you associate yourself with, which ended the last thread.

I'll do what you should have done:
What a horrible tragedy. I hope this serves as an appropriate lesson to people about wearing plastons/general safety in general. I am not at all outwardly happy that somebody has died so that I may re-harp on a failed argument I made on the internet several months ago.

You ****ing idiot.

[fatfencer]

Originally Posted by whtouche

Somebody dies, and you take the opportunity for some (misplaced, ignorant, misinformed) gloating, complete with big tongue smiley face?
Stay classy, moron.

And no, nobody argued that mask punch tests should not be "mandatory". Just that they are unnecessary to perform before every tournament. Which is still true. Which is why if you fence 10 events at summer nationals, they only punch your mask once. I believe that's the sentiment, on the part of Bill Hall who is more respected than anyone you associate yourself with, which ended the last thread.

I'll do what you should have done:
What a horrible tragedy. I hope this serves as an appropriate lesson to people about wearing plastons/general safety in general. I am not at all outwardly happy that somebody has died so that I may re-harp on a failed argument I made on the internet several months ago.

He died. Nothing I can do about it. I can still make fun of you for being wrong. No matter how much you squirm its always better to be safer than to.. NOT. [Edited for content]

FF

[edited for content]

PPPS: It's STILL safer to check the mask rather than not, and to check more often than less. Though I respect Bill, I do, he's even redone a mask or two for me, I still think he is incorrect. Everytime I come home safe I'm thankful armory did its job. Fencing is a collaborative effort. Nothing happens on the strip if its just you. Moreover there were other armorers who agreed with me should you choose to reread the thread.

[fatfencer]

Originally Posted by MyrddinsPrecint

You guys miss my point:

Once you invade Poland, you have Poland.

I like pirogies as much as the next person, but seriously, what are you going to do with it once you have it??

Depending on where else you decide to invade, you could have tea, rice, chocolate, wine, cheese.... all sorts of yummy things. Invading Poland seems like much more work than it's worth.

This is true... France is closer and historically they pretty much collapse and say 'come have some Brie with us.'

I love the French for this.... they bring civility to Europe....and great cuisine.

[catwood1]

So person A says we don't need to punch test masks 10 times a season.

Person B says we do.

Somebody dies from not wearing a plastron.

Person B says "TOLD YA SO!!!"

....um...

What did I miss here?

[KD5MDK]

Poland. It's over next to Kaliningrad Oblast.