North Atlantic Sectionals

[jwe]

Poorly organized, layout of strips was dangerous and the majority of referees were over their head.

[dcrocket]

That's hard to understand. Where were all of the New England refs?

[DJ Apostrophe]

That's hard to understand. Where were all of the New England refs?

They were there.

I'm sorry you feel the referees were over their heads.

I had two referee complaints all weekend... So possibly you had an isolated experience?

As for poorly organized, we ended up in two gyms because we had to scramble at the last minute to find a space as the space we were going to use (Dana Hall School) ended up falling through and Concord-Carlisle was able to help us out at basically the last minute.

Unfortunately, Saturday ended up being double booked at C-C with a music event that no one in the athletic department knew about until Monday or Tuesday of the previous week. As a result, we had to change our plan from 6 strips in the upper gym, 6 in the lower gym and 6 in the cafeteria to 8 in the upper gym and 8 in the lower gym as we lost the use of the cafeteria. This lead to the overlapping strips. It was a bad layout and undesirable, but it was what we were left with in the end.

I am sorry you had a bad experience. If there any specific questions or anything you'd like me to address I'd be happy to.

Sincerely,

Wayne Jenness
Chair, North Atlantic Section

[epeemike81]

I had two referee complaints all weekend...

And one of those was about an FOC (and Triple FIE B)...

-m

[jwe]

They were there.

I'm sorry you feel the referees were over their heads.

I had two referee complaints all weekend... So possibly you had an isolated experience?

As for poorly organized, we ended up in two gyms because we had to scramble at the last minute to find a space as the space we were going to use (Dana Hall School) ended up falling through and Concord-Carlisle was able to help us out at basically the last minute.

Unfortunately, Saturday ended up being double booked at C-C with a music event that no one in the athletic department knew about until Monday or Tuesday of the previous week. As a result, we had to change our plan from 6 strips in the upper gym, 6 in the lower gym and 6 in the cafeteria to 8 in the upper gym and 8 in the lower gym as we lost the use of the cafeteria. This lead to the overlapping strips. It was a bad layout and undesirable, but it was what we were left with in the end.

I am sorry you had a bad experience. If there any specific questions or anything you'd like me to address I'd be happy to.

Sincerely,

Wayne Jenness
Chair, North Atlantic Section

I observed a number of referee's who were very weak. Yes, there were some good referee's there. I also observed one referee who is a coach refereeing a fencer in her club in DE's. Conflict of interest?

Layout of strips were dangerous for fencers and referee's and also made it difficult for referee's to see everything.

This was a qualifying event. There is no excuse for this level of disorganization.

[Wingate85]

JWE you are wrong. As far as I am concerned this was a very well run event with exceptional refs. Mike Eskin, in particular, was superb.

[DJ Apostrophe]

I observed a number of referee's who were very weak. Yes, there were some good referee's there. I also observed one referee who is a coach refereeing a fencer in her club in DE's. Conflict of interest?

Layout of strips were dangerous for fencers and referee's and also made it difficult for referee's to see everything.

This was a qualifying event. There is no excuse for this level of disorganization.

Why don't you run it next year?

I agree that the layout was undesirable (I wouldn't go as far as to say that it was unsafe)... We didn't have another option.

12 grounded strips
16 score and time machines

Several members of the FOC present and refereeing, events running on time...

I'm sorry I ran such a horrible tournament for you.

I put a ton of time into this (and the other 5 section events I ran over my tenure as chair), as did many other people (other officers, setup / breakdown volunteers, referees, armorers, check in volunteers, concession stand volunteers, etc).

I'm sorry it wasn't perfect. But it's the best we could do. To merely give such dismissive criticism is offensive and is a significant factor in what causes people to stop helping run these (and many other) events...

This thread, as well as other things that happened this weekend leave me seriously considering never running a tournament again.

I started doing it to run better tournaments and help fencers have a better experience... I like to think I'm good at it...

But I'm starting to think the stress isn't worth it.

So forget it.

-w

[dcrocket]

Are you done as Chair?

Anything of importance at the section meeting?

[epeemike81]

I put a ton of time into this (and the other 5 section events I ran over my tenure as chair).

I, for one, would like to thank you for doing so.

-m

[DJ Apostrophe]

Are you done as Chair?

Anything of importance at the section meeting?

Yes.

Officers for next season:

Karen Huntress, Chair
Mike Eskin, Vice Chair
Mike Kreidman, Secretary
Linda Merritt, Treasurer

Next year sectionals will be on one weekend instead of two (done for financial considerations as well as to free up a weekend during the spring qualifier season) Junior and Senior events only (no more cadet as the numbers have been falling consistently and eliminating them allows the event to be run on one weekend). Hudson - Berkshire division to host.

Minutes will be available soon. Section webhost went out of business and I've been trying to move the site for two plus months now...

-w

[DJ Apostrophe]

I, for one, would like to thank you for doing so.

-m

You're welcome.

I was happy to do it.

I know a vast majority of people appreciate it.

Thank you for stepping up for next year.

-w

[noodle]

You're welcome.

I was happy to do it.

I know a vast majority of people appreciate it.

Thank you for stepping up for next year.

-w

please inspect the video clip i sent you via rep.

[dcrocket]

Next year sectionals will be on one weekend instead of two (done for financial considerations as well as to free up a weekend during the spring qualifier season) Junior and Senior events only (no more cadet as the numbers have been falling consistently and eliminating them allows the event to be run on one weekend). Hudson - Berkshire division to host.


-w

Good! I have always thought that this was a good idea.

Thank you for your years of Chairing the Section!

[jwe]

I am only talking about one competition and my observations.

Conflict of interest, or am I wrong concerning one referee who is a coach refereeing a fencer in her club in DE's. BTW, she was one of the very good referee's at the competition.

[DJ Apostrophe]

I am only talking about one competition and my observations.

Conflict of interest, or am I wrong concerning one referee who is a coach refereeing a fencer in her club in DE's. BTW, she was one of the very good referee's at the competition.

It happens.

If they aren't coaching a bout that they're actually refereeing, I don't think it's an issue (unless they start bullying another referee on behalf of their student or something).

Fencing is a small world... (Almost) everyone wears more than one hat.

If you want to restrict referees from coaching many of your better referees will say "I can't referee, I need to coach" and you'll have to get referees from outside the section (for this particular event)... which is something that is currently outside the section's budget.

Once again, I agree that it isn't ideal, but in general, it's a pretty standard thing that I've seen since I've been involved in fencing, and recently they've been trying to eliminate it at NACs and Nationals, but haven't succeeded there yet either (and their budget to hire totally uninvolved referees is MUCH higher).

Also, if it was really an issue, you could have come to the bout committee and mentioned it. Then we could have observed what was happening and made any changes necessary instead of kvetching about it on the internet later.

-w

[jwe]

It happens.

If they aren't coaching a bout that they're actually refereeing, I don't think it's an issue (unless they start bullying another referee on behalf of their student or something).

Fencing is a small world... (Almost) everyone wears more than one hat.

If you want to restrict referees from coaching many of your better referees will say "I can't referee, I need to coach" and you'll have to get referees from outside the section (for this particular event)... which is something that is currently outside the section's budget.

Once again, I agree that it isn't ideal, but in general, it's a pretty standard thing that I've seen since I've been involved in fencing, and recently they've been trying to eliminate it at NACs and Nationals, but haven't succeeded there yet either (and their budget to hire totally uninvolved referees is MUCH higher).

Also, if it was really an issue, you could have come to the bout committee and mentioned it. Then we could have observed what was happening and made any changes necessary instead of kvetching about it on the internet later.

-w

I understand about people wearing many hats. I just thought it was a conflict of interest. Maybe it is unavoidable at times.

I don't know how it is done at National events. I did not know it was ok to be a referee and a coach at the same event. My error.

[Phrogger]

jwe, while constructive criticism is often appreciated, your comments fall short. The best way to get results is to offer to volunteer next year to take some of the burden from those who often shoulder too much. Or at the very least offer specific solutions to specific problems.

[hello?]

Yes.

Of
Next year sectionals will be on one weekend instead of two (done for financial considerations as well as to free up a weekend during the spring qualifier season) Junior and Senior events only (no more cadet as the numbers have been falling consistently and eliminating them allows the event to be run on one weekend). Hudson - Berkshire division to host.

Minutes will be available soon. Section webhost went out of business and I've been trying to move the site for two plus months now...

-w

Any chance of it not being over Mother's Day weekend and earlier so that qualifiers will become automatics for Div 2/3 and let more people qualify for those events? That would be great.

[DJ Apostrophe]

Any chance of it not being over Mother's Day weekend and earlier so that qualifiers will become automatics for Div 2/3 and let more people qualify for those events? That would be great.

Yep, that's the goal.

First choice of date is a weekend in April that isn't:

Easter
Passover
Another Major Religious Holiday
SATs
NAC

Hopefully that'll leave one or two...

-w

[hello?]

I started doing it to run better tournaments and help fencers have a better experience... I like to think I'm good at it...

-

You ARE great at it. There is no comparison between how your events are run vs the average run-of-the-mill tournament. Yes, the strip layout was unfortunate but, as you explained, there was obviously nothing that could have been done to fix that. Thanks for running yet another well-run tournament.