Epee guard offset measurements?

[Tomas N]

I've been putting together a couple of new epees with Vniti gurads and have noticed that the offset is such that my fingers are squeezed against the socket and bodycord. It seems like the offset is larger than on some of my other epees. That made me wonder whether there is any information out there about the offset on various brands of bellguards. I'm looking for something lightweight that has a standard top to bottom offset but is more even left to right.

Tomas

[Stormbringer]

I know that m.17 in the rules defines the maximum offset as 3.5 cm from the center of the guard (to be more specific, it states "Eccentric mounting is allowed provided the distance between the center of the guard and the point where the blade passes the guard does not exceed 3.5 cm.")

While I can't say with certainty whether it's done this way... I would imagine that the offset would be something close to ~45 degrees from the center, so that any given guard can be rotated and mounted in either a RH orientation or a (mirrored) LH orientation, as needed.

Could it be that the problem isn't the position of the mounting point through the guard, but a combination of the cant in the tang and the angle of the socket - that is, does the socket angle too far inward (toward the handle) with the cant in the handle being too far toward the socket?

Also, while probably not the best plan... depending on the size of the cutout, it might be possible to rotate the guard about 45 degrees, so that one of the corners of the cutout for the tang is in the position is in the place of the normal circular cutouts; that should make the guard's profile more symmetrical across the vertical axis, and afford more space for the fingers, at the cost of some protection to the top and outside of the hand.

[catwood1]

I got a used blade that was VERY heavily canted. The socket was put on the opposit side to prevent the problem the OP mentions. I am right handed, the socket went to the RIGHT of my hand when hold the weapon.

[whiteandbluefencer]

...the offset is such that my fingers are squeezed against the socket and bodycord.

I had this same problem with my two new epees... they both have Vniti guards (which are light and very nice). The problem was compounded even more by the fact that my epees have a pretty decent cant too, so my grip was further down in my bell guard than usual.

The solution I came up with has worked very well. I loosened up the grip and carefully (so as not to break the wires) shifted the socket clockwise until it was up in the widest part of the bell guard. After doing this, the two holes that are closer together on the socket ended up lining up over top of my thumb when I hold my epee properly. It took about a day to get used to having the bodycord running down the top of my hand into my glove, but now I like it better than the conventional way. I feel like the cord it out of the way because it doesn't ever catch on the long prong on my Visconti grip.

My coach at my club back in the U.S. said that it's completely fine to move the socket to a different location inside the bell guard and that she's seen other fencers do something similar. Try this and see if it works.

P.S.- Enjoy the new bell guards! They're light, and also seem to be more sonorous than other bell guards I've encountered... I love the music of lots of epee fencing!

[KD5MDK]

There is no required orientation of the socket within the guard, as long as it does not project past the guard.

Of course, if you move it around be very careful not to pinch the wires or you'll need to rewire it.

[noodle]

vniti guards are a little strange. put the socket on the opposite side.

[Tomas N]

Thanks for the suggestions. I think that I'm going to just not use the Vniti guards. Not only was I getting the pinching against the socket, but with the Vniti, my hand/pinky finger is too exposed on the bottom of the bell guard. I measured the Vniti against the FWF lightweight, and the FWF seems to be about an eighth of an inch less off-center. I'm probably missing something else because that doesn't seem like a lot of distance, but using the FWF, my hand is much more comfortable in the guard and isn't sticking out underneath. I'm still wondering whether other manufacturers, like Leon Paul, have less of an offset on their epee guards. I'll have to give them a call.

It's amazing to me that I've been fencing epee 20+ years and probably assembled 100+ epees, but have never really thought about the shape and offset on the epee guard before.

Tomas

[piste off]

Thanks for the suggestions. I think that I'm going to just not use the Vniti guards. Not only was I getting the pinching against the socket, but with the Vniti, my hand/pinky finger is too exposed on the bottom of the bell guard. I measured the Vniti against the FWF lightweight, and the FWF seems to be about an eighth of an inch less off-center. I'm probably missing something else because that doesn't seem like a lot of distance, but using the FWF, my hand is much more comfortable in the guard and isn't sticking out underneath. I'm still wondering whether other manufacturers, like Leon Paul, have less of an offset on their epee guards. I'll have to give them a call.

It's amazing to me that I've been fencing epee 20+ years and probably assembled 100+ epees, but have never really thought about the shape and offset on the epee guard before.

Tomas

The only thing you'll have to watch is that with the FWF's they are a two piece (unlike Vniti's one), which means over time the two can vary based on wear and tear from the original position. You'll need to bang them together and test before putting together a weapon or the results may be suprising.

R-