Proper Attack in Saber

[Thud13]

I've been fencing saber for about a year now and have been trying to improve the best I can. Lately in bouts though, I've been having a problem when I being on the attack (and having perfectly clean right of way) will consistently get hit in my attacking arm. I'm at a loss for what exactly is going on here, but I was wondering "how" to make an attack in saber. What distance are you looking for before initiating the attack and is your arm close to your body during the approach (but still at a 135* angle)? Its during that approach to the opponent that I get hammered... any tips or advice?

Thank you!

~Charles

[Purple Fencer]

I've been fencing saber for about a year now and have been trying to improve the best I can. Lately in bouts though, I've been having a problem when I being on the attack (and having perfectly clean right of way) will consistently get hit in my attacking arm. I'm at a loss for what exactly is going on here, but I was wondering "how" to make an attack in saber. What distance are you looking for before initiating the attack and is your arm close to your body during the approach (but still at a 135* angle)? Its during that approach to the opponent that I get hammered... any tips or advice?

Thank you!

~Charles

Where exactly are you getting hit?

If it's the underside, you may be raising your arm up and exposing the underside of your arm.

If the top, you might have your arm too far to the outside.

If on the outside of the arm -- like you haven't quite made parry 3 -- your arm may have drifted INSIDE.

Any way exposes target, and you may not realize you're doing it. An experienced fencer will jump on any opening he sees....especially if that person is an epeeist.

[Gibbo]

I would reccomend asking your coach to watch you fence, or getting someone to video your fencing so you can watch it back and see where you are going wrong. If you are fencing more experienced opponents at club, don't be afraid to ask them what you are doing wrong that is allowing them to hit your arm so much.

Without seeing you fence it is difficult to diagnose the problem, but it sounds like you are getting hit on your preparation because you are doing one or more things such as not fencing behind the guard, making overly large faints with the arm (molinello) instead of the hand and wrist (thus exposing plenty of target for your oponent to stop-cut). Lunging with a bent arm will make you fall short (extending the arm too late in the attack) and allow your opponent to stop hit on your preparation with plenty of time.

Distance, and a good sense of it, is essential in sabre and it is a principle that my coach works on in every lesson. Chat with your coach about it. A good drill for developing your distance skills is the "head game" - fencing with only cuts to the head allowed, no counter attacks at first (when your sense of distance develops you can allow counter attacks to head) and no parries. You have to avoid your opponent using footwork and good distance. Give it a go.

Best wishes,

Gibbo

[prototoast]

Remember, when he is close enough to hit you, you're close enough to hit him, so you should be hitting him already. When you're attacking, the transition from out of distance to in distance should be covered with a lunge, with proper extension, and ideally you (as the attacker) control when that moment happens.

[Gibbo]

I should also add (with a smattering of salt) that a successful attack at sabre has, in our club and by some unwritten law, to end with you shouting "EAT IIIIIT" or "IN YOUR FACE!!!"

[Craig]

I'm at a loss for what exactly is going on here, but I was wondering "how" to make an attack in saber.

Charles,

I don't have any good instructional videos to show you (though I know one is in the works), but we do have a good budding video channel here at Fencing.Net.

Check out the Sabre Videos

Look through the bouts and see what these fencers do on the attack and what they do to break distance or score attacks in preparation. Spend some time looking at a few bouts, or better yet, find one fencer whose style you like and look at their bouts, and you should come up with some ideas to test out in your next practice.

Craig

[Allen Evans]

There is no simple answer to your question, because none of us know what your opponent is doing to hit you. You could be extending too early OR too late (though I suspect the former rather than the later since you're getting hit in the arm rather than being hit in the body on preparation-- at least from your description). Either one can make you vulnerable to an attack to the arm by the opponent, depending on what he or she is doing with their distance.

Your best resource in solving this problem (as previous posters have said) is your coach, or a video of your bout.

Remember, it's not "arm before foot" but "arm coordinated with foot".

[Thud13]

Thank you all for the suggestions. I will have my coach watch me at practice tonight and will see what he notices. So far though... I think that this rings truest:

Prototoast: Remember, when he is close enough to hit you, you're close enough to hit him, so you should be hitting him already. When you're attacking, the transition from out of distance to in distance should be covered with a lunge, with proper extension, and ideally you (as the attacker) control when that moment happens.

This actually :feels: like what is happening. I am getting WAY too close before I lunge/attack which is allowing him to just reach out and pop me. I never realized that the "transition" needs to be covered with a lunge and an attack. I will have to give that a try tonight at practice and see what develops.

Thank you so much to everyone for the input

[Inquartata]

That's a common problem---getting too close. Eventually you learn what your distances are for various attacks...and they almost always turn out to be greater than you think at first.

You are dealing with simple human reaction times. The limit is about 2/10ths of a second. If you are too close, whoever "goes" first is likely to hit, and the opponent is probably not going to be able to react in time.

And it would be ever so much easier if your opponents weren't trying constantly to deceive you about those distances.

However, as several people have noted, it could also be several other things. Like maybe letting your feet outrun your hand. Like momentary hesitations or wrist-cocks---and capitalizing on those is a good deal of what sabre is about any more. Without seeing what's going on, we have to guess. Even you may not know. You need to have someone who is...you know...there...diagnose you...

[Sean Butler]

You've got some good advice so far, and I wouldn't presume to know better what to tell you than those who have already replied. However, one thing might be missing from the simpler answers.

Dont be predictable! If for example I march down the piste, hand back in tierce, with little blade movement, and end every attack with a jump lunge, guess what... my opponent will pick up on that pattern and nail me in prep virtually every time. So, in order to succeed the attacker has to be aware that it is necessary to switch things up, use a broken rhythm in both the feet and the hand. Think about constantly changing the tempo, and size of your steps as well, coordinate those with appropriate feints and parries.

Sometimes you have to finish fast, other times you might make false attacks to lure the stop hit/counter attack while you still have the distance to avoid it. Another thing to consider is this: If you do roughly the same sort of attack every time, and he uses roughly the same stop-cut, then he is also being predictable. Most points in sabre, are scored because someone believed a lie. Predictability is your enemy.